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archiver
06-23-2002, 09:47 PM
Posted by Bill Beatty at 1/12/2001 10:36 AM EST


Other on team #71, Team Hammond, from Team Hammond.



Car Nack is in disbelief

1. That FIRST made such a dramatic rule change to alter the game to allow scoring with the goals on their sides and four large balls on the top side.

2. FIRST will need a large supply of PVC pipe to repair the goals that are broken from tipping the goals over and hitting the edges of the aluminum side plates.

Car Nack has spoken.

archiver
06-23-2002, 09:47 PM
Posted by Raul at 1/12/2001 1:38 PM EST


Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.


In Reply to: Car Nack In Disbelief
Posted by Bill Beatty on 1/12/2001 10:36 AM EST:



But do you think FIRST made the game easier by changing the rule? I think it just made it more complex. Now, teams have to think of many more possible ways that a big ball could score. The possible configurations will drive you nuts.

Did anyone think of this unlikely config.: The goal sitting on its top and the ball balanced on the base between the casters? I'm not done - if it is leaning against the player station a human player can then place the big ball up there. Am I nuts or what?

Raul

: Car Nack is in disbelief

: 1. That FIRST made such a dramatic rule change to alter the game to allow scoring with the goals on their sides and four large balls on the top side.

: 2. FIRST will need a large supply of PVC pipe to repair the goals that are broken from tipping the goals over and hitting the edges of the aluminum side plates.

: Car Nack has spoken.

archiver
06-23-2002, 09:47 PM
Posted by Ken Patton at 1/12/2001 5:52 PM EST


Engineer on team #65, The Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.


In Reply to: Re: Car Nack In Disbelief
Posted by Raul on 1/12/2001 1:38 PM EST:



Raul-

I would never call you nuts, but I don't go for that. The human is on the wrong side of the field isn't he/she? Too much work....

Ken

archiver
06-23-2002, 09:47 PM
Posted by Janna at 1/12/2001 5:52 PM EST


Student on team #349, The RoBahamas, from International Academy and Ford Motor Company and Robert Bosch GmbH.


In Reply to: Re: Car Nack In Disbelief
Posted by Raul on 1/12/2001 1:38 PM EST:



So the human player could put the big ball on top...but how would it get it? Is there a situation where it would be more advantageous to pass the ball to the human player over the glass rather than just scoring it on top? Just curious, we're trying to think of strategies. :)

archiver
06-23-2002, 09:47 PM
Posted by Michael Martus at 1/12/2001 10:14 PM EST


Coach on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central H.S. and Delphi Automotives Systems.


In Reply to: Car Nack In Disbelief
Posted by Bill Beatty on 1/12/2001 10:36 AM EST:




Car Nack is indeed wise for his years!

archiver
06-23-2002, 09:47 PM
Posted by Ken Leung at 1/12/2001 10:57 PM EST


Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Henry M. Gunn Senior High School.


In Reply to: Car Nack In Disbelief
Posted by Bill Beatty on 1/12/2001 10:36 AM EST:



: 1. That FIRST made such a dramatic rule change to alter the game to allow scoring with the goals on their sides and four large balls on the top side.

: 2. FIRST will need a large supply of PVC pipe to repair the goals that are broken from tipping the goals over and hitting the edges of the aluminum side plates.

I do not exactly agree with FIRST's decision of changing the rules this late. Many teams who set their strategy in the first few days are going to find this rule change making a huge difference in their standpoint behind their strategies.
However, this rule change does not seems as influential as it should be because the goals on its side lying on the ground are really hard to push around or mess around. All it take to get it on its side is a simple dragging it across the bridge and let it tip over, but moving it around is different thing because there are no longer casters for it to slide on, not to mention the friction of the wood base against the carpet. And then, it is not likely for any robot to do anything to the goal after this point except pushing and putting balls on. I would say putting the base up in the air is almost out of question, unless a robot is designed specifically just doing that. Maybe they should've made the entire goal out of PVC...

And yes, they are going to need a lot of replacement ready for goals tipping over when robots try to drag it across the bridge or balancing them. I can picture FIRST having at least 4 spare goal for each field at competition.

archiver
06-23-2002, 09:47 PM
Posted by EddieMcD at 03/09/2001 6:14 PM EST


Student on team #121, Islanders, from Middletown High School and NUWC.


In Reply to: blood has officially been involved with my souveniers...
Posted by Rob DeCotiis on 03/09/2001 5:42 PM EST:



What souveniers? I want one!

-Ed "I want my mystery souvenier" McDonnell

archiver
06-23-2002, 09:47 PM
Posted by Thomas A. Frank at 03/09/2001 4:53 PM EST


Engineer on team #121, The Islanders/Rhode Warrior, from Middletown (RI) High School and Naval Undersea Warfare Center.


In Reply to: Re: WHAT???..
Posted by Patrick Dingle on 03/08/2001 9:45 PM EST:



: All I'm saying... for us, it is a LOT cheaper to purchase sprockets through SPI when they charge ONLY SHIPPING for them then when we purchase them through another catalog such as mcmaster carr.



Jason;

Assuming SPI has a size that mets your needs, and assuming it is in stock, you are probably right when looked at in a narrow way, but while I can see what you are saying, I think you might be missing the bigger picture.

Under last years rules, you could have gone over to your local bicycle shop and asked them to donate 20 feet of chain and some sprockets. I guarantee you would have gotten them (probably used, but who cares?), and they would really have been free (ignoring the thank you letters 34 cents postage).

I don't have any problem with SPI doing this, and making money at it. That's how our economic system is supposed to wrok. But with the freedom to engage in such a business, there exists a responsibility that requires that you be able to provide the goods/services required in a timely and cost effective manner. SPI is not always very good at this. Thus I think that FIRST needs to continue loosening the construction rules to make it easier for teams to utilize whatever they have on hand to build the machine.

It is hard enough getting volunteers to do this without annoying those who do give of their time with absurd rules that do not accomplish anything positive.

Everybody has access to a "junk bin" of some sort or other. The standard refrain I heard was "why can't we just use this (fill in the blank) which is just sitting hear". 'Cause that's the rules (grumble, grumble).

Makes it tough to get people to volunteer for next year...

Tom Frank

archiver
06-23-2002, 09:47 PM
Posted by Bill Beatty at 1/13/2001 10:38 AM EST


Other on team #71, Team Hammond, from Team Hammond.


In Reply to: New PVC can be stronger than you think
Posted by Raul on 1/12/2001 11:31 PM EST:




We have used PVC pipe in most of our robots over the years and I agree it is amazingly strong and flexible. However the fittings are a different story and are quite brittle and weak. Also I have concerns about the lower connection where the PVC pipe is clamped by a set screw in the Kee flange. This is one time when I hope I am wrong, because it would be a bummer if the goals keep breaking.

archiver
06-23-2002, 09:47 PM