PDA

View Full Version : if you could have what you want...


Greg Perkins
08-16-2002, 06:50 AM
hey all,

i was curious, if first got input from us what would you like to see improved? personally, i would like to have four drill motors in hte kit, and weight limit of 150, just for the extra weight more of the low funded teams would have an equal chance to use materials that have alot of weight, i know 151 uses 3/16 6061 aluminum for our chassis cnc'd out, now some teams cannot afford this commodity. thats what i would like to see happen, what would you like to see??


Badjokeguy

Mike Schroeder
08-16-2002, 10:50 AM
I to would like to see the weight limit raised because sitting in the pits and file metal off just to ge the 1/10 of a lb we need off to make 130 at our regional and then again at to nationals


Another Thing is allowing team mascots on the plaing field at regionals and nationals cause getting chased off the field for trying to do the white boy dance for the crowd was very upsetting


thats all I got to say about that

evulish
08-16-2002, 11:08 AM
Bah. 130 makes it a challenge. If it is raised to 150, it won't be hard to do whatever you want. Remember, this stuff is teaching you how to do it in real life. 130lbs is a great limit. You build what you think you can in that weight limit. If you're over, drill some holes or get rid of something. If you're under, you can add some weight (or just leave it alone). Also, better materials doesn't neccisarily mean better robot :)

(As for getting kicked off for doing the white boy dance...haha...maybe they had good reason :D )

srawls
08-16-2002, 11:10 AM
Please see this thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14008), this thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4148), and this thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14168).

Also, you just missed the FIRST Forums, that is the place where teams get to voice their opinions about issues like these.

Stephen

D.J. Fluck
08-16-2002, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Volcano
I to would like to see the weight limit raised because sitting in the pits and file metal off just to ge the 1/10 of a lb we need off to make 130 at our regional and then again at to nationals

With an additional 20 pounds, chances are that your team is going to take advantage of that and you probably still will sit in the pits and file that 1/10th of a pound off to make weight...

Ian W.
08-16-2002, 01:41 PM
lol, no matter what the weight limit is people will do that.

one problem i have noticed though. batteries don't all weigh the same. i'm kinda ashamed to say this, but 810 is guilty of doing this :/. at NYC, our robot was just 130 lbs, only because we found the lightest battery of our five. there were huge differences in the battery weights. so, yeah, you might be able to 'shave off' .4, .6 lbs, but it's something FIRST should look into. maybe having an offical weight of say, 120 lbs, w/o a battery. i think this would eliminate the problem, although the thought of it only being 120 lbs will screw with some people's minds :D.

Clark Gilbert
08-16-2002, 05:20 PM
To gain additional weight i would like to remove the battery from the weigh in process....this would save a good amount to have just that little bit extra that everyone always seems to need.
:D

Greg Perkins
08-16-2002, 08:41 PM
batteries do weigh different, i like the idea of weigh in without the batteries, that way its a raw weight instead of having varied weight through batteries. just my $.02 worth.


Badjokeguy

sanddrag
08-16-2002, 09:06 PM
We could have a 300lb weight limit and all we would do is throw on more junk and still be right up to the limit.

Mike Schroeder
08-16-2002, 10:33 PM
My team's advisor told us that there use to be no demension limits and teams built robots that they couldn't get outta doors

evulish
08-16-2002, 11:35 PM
Finding the lightest battery isn't too bad...I wouldn't get on a team for doing that. Although, what stops a team from actually draining a battery so they're only weighing the case and removing around 5 pounds from the actual weight. As far as I know, no team has done this. (weedie made me see how this could be done...)

Jeff Waegelin
08-17-2002, 10:32 AM
While a higher weight limit would open a lot more doors for design, my feelings are that whatever the weight limit is, it still won't be enough for some people. If we go to 150 lbs, teams will still have trouble squeezing in under the limit, because more weight would lead to more features, and everyone has a tendency to push the envelope as to what they can reasonably fit on their robots. I say stay at 130, since it provides more of a challenge, and why mess with what works?

mtaman02
08-17-2002, 10:30 PM
I agree with most espicially 810. batteries do weigh different and personally 120 - 125 lbs just robot no battery would probably be better. who knows. we won't know what the changes are for 2003 till kickoff. Hope he's listening to the wish list

Jack
08-23-2002, 11:08 AM
i like the empty battery idea, but if you ever got caught it would probelly dq you for the season because all of the matches you compeated in you had a 5-7 lb avdantage.

Ricksta
08-23-2002, 12:33 PM
the reason the wieght limit isn't any higher is because teams have to drag the robot on and off the field in a very small amount of time. we cant go making huge heavy robots cause next thing you know instead of carts we will be using forklifts to move the robots.

team222badbrad
08-23-2002, 05:41 PM
If you dont want people (Swiss Cheesing) there metal the easiest thing to do is to keep the weight limit at 130 pounds and make the maximum size of the robot smaller! Duh

That way people do not have all this space to work with.

The smaller something is the less it weighs..............

Ian W.
08-23-2002, 06:02 PM
no, you just know that if FIRST makes the robot size smaller, but keeps the weight the same, people will use heavier things just for the hell of it. :p

Joe Matt
08-23-2002, 06:09 PM
Lets compromize. Lets keep the 130 limmit, but have bonuses and penalties. There will be a 2 lbs. lean, so if you all of a sudden way 131, you won't be disqualified. Also, you can weigh up to 135, but a small point deduction will be made each time (say 4) and if you way under 125, you will get points (ditto, four).

Rob Ribaudo
08-23-2002, 07:32 PM
I don't think giving extra (or taking away) points would make everyone happy about the scores during the competitions. Maybe having awards for the lightest robot would make people try to make lighter robots. Maybe...

Collin Fultz
08-23-2002, 10:02 PM
i would have to say i agree with the disagreement about the giving and taking away of points. but, the weight limit only applies at the weigh-in. i know that we added stuff thirty seconds before the last call of a match so that our robot would pick balls up off the field. that probably put us over...however, we also had enough junk knocked off of us that it could have evened out.

i would like to see first get away from the traditional game. granted i've only really been exposed to FIRST for two years now, but it seems that dean and woody are obsessing with picking up balls and putting them places...then putting goals places. granted the design changes so you have to improve a little, but nothing major...i'm looking for something totally different. i.e. different level playing field, racing, something like that. if they want to indulge my every fantasy...water. make a game where the robot has to move through water.

Mike Schroeder
08-24-2002, 04:39 AM
Hey another thing I would like to see the checkin process gone or simplified at the nationals, I don't think they have realized that it is now nessasary for you to go to a regional to go to nationals. So when you goto lets say rutgers and weigh in at 129 then you goto the nationals and you weigh 131 , what changed in that time. I mean if you add somthing or fix somthing useing different materials you should check in all over again.

Thats all I got to say 'bout that

Jeff Waegelin
08-24-2002, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by Jack
i like the empty battery idea, but if you ever got caught it would probelly dq you for the season because all of the matches you compeated in you had a 5-7 lb avdantage.

I think the idea was to officially weigh all robots without a battery. This would eliminate the differences in weight between individual batteries.

Chris P
08-25-2002, 02:28 PM
The only thing that I can see that could possibly happen is that when the robots are weighed without a battery, some teams may go all out and find massive batteries that way like 20 lbs. That way they could end up having like a 5-10 lbs advantage over the other team. I know it is unrealistic, but it could happen.

Jnadke
08-25-2002, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Chris P
The only thing that I can see that could possibly happen is that when the robots are weighed without a battery, some teams may go all out and find massive batteries that way like 20 lbs. That way they could end up having like a 5-10 lbs advantage over the other team. I know it is unrealistic, but it could happen.

It's against the rules to purchase your own batteries. You can only use kit batteries or past years' approved batteries.

Collin Fultz
08-25-2002, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by Jnadke


It's against the rules to purchase your own batteries. You can only use kit batteries or past years' approved batteries.

we all know not all teams follow the rules...and even if they do at inspection, they don't on the field. there needs to be spot checks before each match i think. one team that i saw (i won't mention names) used an illegal piece as the main part of their ball pick-up last year. well, all they did was take it off for the inspection and then put it right back on. it was an obvious rule violation, but nobody stopped it. they wound up winning the division. tsk tsk tsk

Jack
08-25-2002, 07:33 PM
i agree w/ having spotchecks. teams can add anything after inspection and not get caught. even our team added two little steel bars to support our motors after are weight inspection in our first regional. then in our second regional we found out that we were a little over weight. we don't know if for a fact if the steel bars put us over our limit or it the scales were different, but we had to dump a little weight before we could compete at our second regional. spotchecks will keep the dishonest out and the honest, honest.

Mike Soukup
08-26-2002, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by collin234

it was an obvious rule violation, but nobody stopped it.
I'm sure some will disagree with me and say you should mind your own business, but it sounds like cheating is a problem in FIRST. Instead of ignoring it we should try to eliminate it. I believe you have two choices in that situation.

First and most desirable is to get a leader from your team to talk to a leader from the other team about the possible rules violation. Don't go there yourself and flat out accuse them of cheating, that will only get the other team defensive and lead to an argument. Approach them and ask about the part in question. Bring a rule book if necessary.

If for some reason that fails, find an inspector or ref and tell them about the team in question (fyi the judges are the people that determine awards and have no bearing on the rules while inspectors inspect robots and have nothing to do with awards; I constantly hear people misuse the titles and ask questions to the wrong people). I was an inspector in LA and I know all of us wanted to enforce the rules, but we probably missed some stuff. All the real experts on the competition rules (the students) could help us by pointing out rules violations that they notice on Friday or Saturday.

I think spot checks should be implemented in order to eliminate cheating. That type of behavior has no place in FIRST. I think completely reinspecting each bot on Friday or Saturday is too much work for the current number of inspectors. Instead FIRST should have random inspections throughout Friday & Saturday and mandatory inspections for all teams in the elims, plus inspections if a rules violation is brought to the attention of the refs or inspectors. That should help keep people honest and catch those who choose to be dishonest.

Mike

Collin Fultz
08-26-2002, 02:53 PM
all very valid points and i think the fact that FIRST even has to deal with the problem of cheating goes againts everything FIRST stands for. to deal with the situation, we did the first option. we just minded our own business. we didn't want to upset someone with the chance of being a possible draft choice...

Ryan Dognaux
08-26-2002, 07:26 PM
Yeah I'm dissapointed that any of this even takes place in FIRST, but this isn't a perfect world or anything. I also recall the time that "one team" added something after inspection Collin. Hopefully FIRST will come up with a much more effective method than what they use today. I like the spotcheck idea too.

Ricksta
08-26-2002, 10:07 PM
in nascar all the cars can only have certain modifications done to the cars. so the cars get checked before qualifying and directly after the race.

so instead of just checking bots on the first day of competition, check the winning alliance after the last match. anything major is wrong they get dqed. Keep going down the list until you can find an alliance thats legal.

Collin Fultz
08-26-2002, 10:21 PM
i don't know how critical we need to be of the teams though. i'm not calling, in any way, for some drastic measure to be taken, i'm simply asking for the rules to be adhered to.

Greg Perkins
09-04-2002, 03:30 PM
good call collin


badjokeguy

johnph2001
09-06-2002, 10:09 AM
If I had things my way then we would have to play a game of robot football. Wouldnt that be cool I mean come on robots and football those are like 2 of lifes best things!!!:D

Mike Schroeder
09-06-2002, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by Ricksta121
so instead of just checking bots on the first day of competition, check the winning alliance after the last match. anything major is wrong they get dqed. Keep going down the list until you can find an alliance thats legal.


The only thing that I see wrong with that is this year our robot was beaten to heck and back so our decals had to be replace after everymatch - if we had won and they weighed us in again then we might have been a little heavier that when the comp started and I dont think anyone in our pit crew wanted to sit and shave the stickers of after eachround and then replace them

COME TO THE BRUNSWICK ERUPTION ~~ NOVEMBER 23, 2K2 ~~~ NORTH BRUNSWICK TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL ~~~~E-MAIL ME FOR DETAILS