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Joel J
01-05-2002, 10:58 PM
Here's a prediction for the average score in a game:

Alliance X - Winner
Robots in "end zone": 1
Goals in their "scoring zone": 2
Balls in their goal: 25
Total: 55

Alliance Y - Loser
Robots in "end zone": 1
Goals in their "scoring zone": 1
Balls in their goal: 20
Total: 40

Winner's final score: 120

Any other ideas?

Tom Fairchild
01-06-2002, 12:21 AM
My team was debating this issue today too. If you get more than 65 points, you win no matter what. As for the average though, that seemed to be about the right situation. It would vary as to how well robots could scoop up balls off the field.

~Tom Fairchild~, who's hoping not to have to worry about it and just go for 66 each time. ;)

James Crivellone
01-06-2002, 12:22 AM
yeah, everyone will be wanting to get the 66 :)

l1jmx
01-06-2002, 12:55 AM
Is there anything aside from Gracious Professionalism that would prevent a team from, upon seeing themselves about to loose, moving their goals out of their zone in an attempt to minimize their score and keep the other team from benefitting. Granted, it hurts their score - but you get to drop 1 and it actually gives the team that they're facing less of a lead over them than if they were to score. 0 x 3 = 0

Joe Johnson
01-06-2002, 01:31 AM
Question:

Suppose you had 4 robots that could lay down and extend themselves to touch the floor in both zone #1 and #5.

Futher suppose that they all scored every ball the goals and that they push every goal in to either zone #2 or #4 and then every robot lays down and touches the floor in both zones #1 & #5.

Am I right in saying that the total score would be 170 points?

80 total points for the robots (40 for each team).
30 total points for the goals (split however they happen to be located)
60 total points for the balls (again, split between the teams based on location).

170 points in all.

Not likely I agree, but theoretically possible. Or am I mistaken?

What do you think?

Joe J.

l1jmx
01-06-2002, 01:38 AM
I love it :)

Chris_C
01-06-2002, 02:00 AM
In response to l1jmx:

I havn't had a chance to read all of this year's rules in great detail yet, but judging from two years ago when we had a similar scoring system, emptying your goals in order to minimize the winning team's QPs would be perfectly allowable, if not Graciously Professional.

In fact, I would not be terribly surprised if we were to occasionally see that as a stratgey between two teams where team X, who is one of the top players, promises team Y that if team Y minimizes their opponent's score and takes a loss, thereby dropping their opponent's ranking and moving team X up, team X would pick team Y as an alliance for the elimination rounds. Err, that might have been a little confusing, but read it again and you'll get it. :rolleyes:

Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

By the way, slick thinking there Joe, it would have taken me a while to think of that.

--Chris Casinghino
Team 131

Joe Johnson
01-06-2002, 12:23 PM
Let me say that 2 years ago, all this was brought up and much worried about (in fact, I was perhaps chief worrier!).

In the end, never saw any such cases. I only heard vague rumors of one or two other possible cases and the rumors had the results not working out so very nicely for the rumored conspirators.

So... I say, relax. It is all going to be just fine.

Worry about building a great functional robust robot and the rest will take care of itself.

Joe J.

Matt Hadley
01-06-2002, 09:00 PM
If the rules permit you to assemble your robot from any parts in the kit, do they prevent you from including the #5 soccer ball there in? If not, what if all four robots included their kit ball? I guess the rule that prohibits you from purposely casting off part of your robot would factor in -- if no other rule did. Just a thought.

Hubicki
01-06-2002, 11:11 PM
I completely agree with Joe's last remark in that the number one priority should be designing a robust (and functional) robot, not worrying about exploiting technicalities in the rules. Every thing brought into the competition should be kept in the spirit of the game.

Kit Gerhart
01-06-2002, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Joe Johnson
Question:

Suppose you had 4 robots that could lay down and extend themselves to touch the floor in both zone #1 and #5.

Futher suppose that they all scored every ball the goals and that they push every goal in to either zone #2 or #4 and then every robot lays down and touches the floor in both zones #1 & #5.

Am I right in saying that the total score would be 170 points?

80 total points for the robots (40 for each team).
30 total points for the goals (split however they happen to be located)
60 total points for the balls (again, split between the teams based on location).

170 points in all.

Not likely I agree, but theoretically possible. Or am I mistaken?

What do you think?

Joe J.

A few of us were discussing that today, and figured that each robot could score 10 for each alliance if 'long' enough. It could be a good way of increasing a team's Q points. I don't expect to see much of it, though.

kevinw
01-07-2002, 01:26 PM
Actually, based on Joe's post there's a total of 170 possible points according to the manual, providing each robot lays down in both robot scoring zones. However, Dean made a comment during the kick-off that any robot that does so would get an additional point. Therefore, there would be 174 possible points, and 88 would be necessary to guarantee victory.

Madison
01-07-2002, 01:37 PM
I think Dean was being facetious about that additional point, you know :)

Mike S
01-07-2002, 03:24 PM
All of this imaginative theoretical scoring by Joe J. who is always thinking of total domination, has me confused greatly.

The rules as stated in "The Game" doc regarding scoring, including the extraordinary unclear Scoring Key in Fig 1.1 are not definitive. (What does a blank mean in the chart?)

I read the rules as "10 points for each robot in your robot zone. I assumed each team has a single robot zone (either 1 or 5) depending on whether they start in Red or Blue station. Thus this says (and so does the table I guess) that you get 10 points in your own zone, not 10 for being in the other robot zone.

Thus the max score I see would be 2 robots and 3 goals in scoring position and 60 balls for a total of 110!

What's my problem. Be nice!

PS - Just like Joe to be considering the elimination rounds right a way and how to totally dominate!

Bill Whitley
01-07-2002, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Mike S
I read the rules as "10 points for each robot in your robot zone.

So if all 4 robots are in your zone, it seems that you should get points for all 4 robots.

Based on the designation for being "in" a zone, it does not rule out being "in" multiple zones at the same time, so it stands to reason that your robot could score points for being in multiple zones, for a maximum possible score of 170.

Greg Ross
01-07-2002, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Bill Whitley

So if all 4 robots are in your zone, it seems that you should get points for all 4 robots.

Based on the designation for being "in" a zone, it does not rule out being "in" multiple zones at the same time, so it stands to reason that your robot could score points for being in multiple zones, for a maximum possible score of 170.

Remember that those 170 theoretical maximum points cannot all be scored by one alliance. If 170 points were to be scored in a match, a minimum of 40 will go to one alliance, and a maximum of 130 to the other. The optimum score would be 86 to 84, and the seeding points for the winning alliance would be 252.

Ricksta
01-07-2002, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Kit Gerhart

A few of us were discussing that today, and figured that each robot could score 10 for each alliance if 'long' enough. It could be a good way of increasing a team's Q points. I don't expect to see much of it, though.

Uh. That is a viable strategy. While wating in your base for the round to finish, a bot could push your goal into their goal zone. If we can hold on to a goal and use a 20 foot arm to touch our home base, we protect our goal and earn those 20 points. The only thing you have to do is get around the entanglement rule.

Wetzel
01-30-2002, 01:55 AM
I see no reason not to hold Dean to his extra point...

Wetzel
01-30-2002, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by Matt Hadley
If the rules permit you to assemble your robot from any parts in the kit, do they prevent you from including the #5 soccer ball there in? If not, what if all four robots included their kit ball? I guess the rule that prohibits you from purposely casting off part of your robot would factor in -- if no other rule did. Just a thought.

In update number 1, rule K1 was updated to include "The soccer ball and reflective tape provided are not for use on the robot."
That would seem to proclude using that to score. Or is it really a non-functional decoration, or does scoring points count as a function?

Joseph F
01-30-2002, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by Matt Hadley
If the rules permit you to assemble your robot from any parts in the kit, do they prevent you from including the #5 soccer ball there in? If not, what if all four robots included their kit ball? I guess the rule that prohibits you from purposely casting off part of your robot would factor in -- if no other rule did. Just a thought.

There is a rule specifically stating that the soccer ball cannot be used on the robot. I dont have the rules in front of me at the moment so I can't tell you exactly where to look but it is in there. My team was a bit dissapointed at this because last year we cut up the big yellow ball and put it on our tires for added traction to get over the ramp. This year we dont have that option.

Nate Smith
01-30-2002, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Wetzel
I see no reason not to hold Dean to his extra point...

If it's not in the rules or the updates, don't count on it...I have a feeling the "extra point" he was referring to at kickoff was simply a style/design point, and not actually having anything to do with the score...

Wetzel
01-30-2002, 04:13 PM
Maybe they will put it in the next update....
(Not counting on it, but it would be cool if it could be done.:cool: )

Jeremy L
01-31-2002, 06:27 PM
regarding the 'bot in both zones' policy, we have several fanatics on our team who are desparately trying to get an "extend-o arm" on our robot. So far we have two designs: a scissors-type thing that would have a wheel on the end (you may have seen a coat hanger that has the same principles) or some sort of telescoping arm with a wheel on the end of it (seeing as they have to be touching the zone.) Could either of these break the entanglement rule? I have heard some bickering on the team because of this, and i personally think that it is a really good way of boosting your qualifying points. the team idiot suggested dispatching a remote control car from inside the bot to scamper into a goal zone. you can see why he's the team idiot :rolleyes:

Wetzel
01-31-2002, 06:38 PM
We have a working! steerable mouse thing at the end of a non entaglement-issue teather. It can be done.
Now if only we could get the rest of the robot under weight...

Tom Schindler
01-31-2002, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by Jeremy L
the team idiot suggested dispatching a remote control car from inside the bot to scamper into a goal zone. you can see why he's the team idiot :rolleyes:

When properly executed this could be a very viable solution. Gracious Professionalism please...

Tom

kacz100
01-31-2002, 08:56 PM
How often do you think there will be a non-scoring robot or goal during the matches???

Wetzel
01-31-2002, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by kacz100
How often do you think there will be a non-scoring robot or goal during the matches???

I think it will happen, mostly due to robots holding goals in place. Some cough*116*cough have a runner so they can still score.
And some will just get mixed up, or break on the field out of scoreing zone.

Don
01-31-2002, 10:26 PM
But if you are in both end zones, then it would be 10 points for each alliance right? So where did the 80 points for 4 robots come from?

Wetzel
01-31-2002, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Don
But if you are in both end zones, then it would be 10 points for each alliance right? So where did the 80 points for 4 robots come from?

Red Alliance has four robots in its robot scoring zone, 40 points.
Blue Alliance has four robots in its goal scoring zone, 40 points.
4 points more if Dean sticks to his comment he made durring kickoff, where you would get an extra point if you could get in both zones at once.:)

Kyle Hill
02-02-2002, 01:11 PM
4 points more if Dean sticks to his comment he made durring kickoff, where you would get an extra point if you could get in both zones at once.

Erm.. yeah. He actually said that in response to a nice, yet clueless, lady asking if you could put a goal in both zones 2 and 4 at the same time. Which is pretty much impossible unless you bend the PVC or something on opposite sides of the goal into 90-degree angles, and in doing so get yourself DQed.

Wetzel
02-02-2002, 01:16 PM
oh. I though he said the robot. I will check the tape and let you know what it says.

Joel J
02-23-2002, 01:55 PM
Here's aNother prediction for the average score in a game:

Alliance X - Winner
Robots in "end zone": 1
Goals in their "scoring zone": 2
Balls in their goal: 10
Total: 40

Alliance Y - Loser
Robots in "end zone": 1
Goals in their "scoring zone": 1
Balls in their goal: 15
Total: 35

Winner's final score: 105

again...Any other ideas?

Mike Norton
02-26-2002, 07:53 AM
I think the average score will be losing team gets 20.

after playing the game at Quincy I see a lot of people having problems like they have done in the past.

The best score is when you have four good robots on the field at once.

our highest score out of 5 matches were 56-50 lowest score was 40-20 us having to put both our robots into the other team point zone.

Tyler Olds
02-26-2002, 08:22 PM
Hi,
I went to an invitational, and we dominated every match we were in, our highest score achieved was around 120, but then again we were the only multiple efficent goal controller. So i would give your hopes up if you dont get 200

Eric Bareiss
03-06-2002, 08:15 PM
As much as i would like to say that we will get just enough so that the other team can't beat us, it's probably not going to happen. if you look back two years the scoring was quite similar, but how many matches did you see that had a score of 45-47. most of the matches that i saw were 16-19 or 8-27 they weren't very high scoring. teams had the potential to score lots of points but because its a competition the other team is going to slap the ball out of your hand when you go for the shot. i'm seeing the scores being much lower that originally expected