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JAlbertz
01-01-2003, 02:08 PM
Everyone, I figured here's some information that you all might be VERY VERY interested in!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim-

I figured that you'd want the low down on this year's game. I'll give you some heads up though- there are TONS of changes. Prof. Flowers and all of us in his 2.973 independent study class realized that the last few games were too complicated for the general spectator to understand, so we broke tons of rules and went back to basics, literally- basketball! (With some neat twists!)

For some reason on the CD forums, everyone is thinking football… which wasn't even really considered. Anyway, I'll just to run by some of the info.

4 robots on the field, 2 on each team, same size playing field (taller, see below), same robot dimensions, weight increased to 140 lbs., Due to change over to 24 volt batteries which are considerably heavier than the batteries used in the past. This is probably going to be a permanent change. Carpeting is the same, but there is no longer metal-carpet interaction allowed for drive systems (such as, but not limited to, using file cards for traction like a few teams did last year.)

Player's stations start with 8 foam volleyballs of their color, (either blue or red)

8 foam volleyballs of each color are on the field, and 1 white / red soccerball, and 1 white / blue soccerball.

In the center is one goal with a 10" wide opening, hexagon shape, 4' tall. 7 points for your color ball on the bottom, 6 points if your color is 2nd from bottom, etc. If the double colored (white-red, white-blue) ball is on top of any of the color below, you get all of the potential points from the balls below. Most bottom part of the ball wins. (Hint: They can be squished inside this goal, because of the material of the ball!) Email me if that isn't clear.

There are two large basketball hoops over the players stations with a 24" inch hoops, and a 4ft by 3ft inwardly curved backboard, TEN FOOT RIM (Rim and backboard will be shipped and supplied to each team free as part of the kit). There are Plexiglas shields 16' tall across the far ends of the playing field, (we're not sure if this is going to be enough to block all the wild shots.) You get 3 points for each ball that you score on the close half of the playing field, (one point for hitting the backboard) and 8 points for each basket you score when your robot is COMPLETELY over the halfway line (2 points for hitting the backboard).

That's basically it. LMK if you want any other info. See you Saturday.

Seth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Raul
01-01-2003, 02:23 PM
I don't know how much of this to believe since it is in the rumor mill forum. However, it is fun to discuss.

24 V battery would be awesome since this would likely reduce the current draw problems, and if the battery is heavier as you indicate, it also would likey have a much longer life.

The scoring scheme you mentioned that is dependent on position of the robot when they shoot is too diificult to track accurately if it is happening simultaneously by multiple robots. So, I doubt this is the case.

team222badbrad
01-01-2003, 02:25 PM
We had better get building I guess! Can you get me a copy of the rule book? We need to know if they are going to allow tape measures this year...

Madison
01-01-2003, 02:31 PM
That's less complicated?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Can the Robot Controller handle 24V?

team222badbrad
01-01-2003, 02:33 PM
You can allways step down 24v yah know?

Ricky Q.
01-01-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by M. Krass
That's less complicated?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Can the Robot Controller handle 24V?

From the IF RC Manual:

The +12V and GND connectors on the Robot Controller are intended to accept power from a +12V
battery. The current draw for the Robot Controller is typically between 0.75A to 1.5A. The maximum
voltage allowable is +15.0V. Exceeding the +15.0V limit may damage internal voltage regulators and
will void the warranty. The minimum required voltage is +8.0V.

MJAdams
01-01-2003, 02:44 PM
Surprisingly enough, if you look here:

http://www-me.mit.edu/CourseListings/CourseListings.htm

You'll see that 2.973 is actually an independent study class at MIT.


http://www.pooftoys.com/toys/catalog/cat3/catalog.asp?action=catv&catid=42

The socerballs are multi-colored while the vollyballs are not....

A 24" DIA rim is quite generous, especially with 7 1/2" DIA balls.

4' tall goals = 48 inches. (7.5" Ball DIA) * (7 point max) is greater than 48 inches... so you would need to squish them in to get all of the points.

Just some things to think about.

Somebody at the very least spent a descent amount of time on this. It's been rumored that the changed to 24 Volts was coming, as well at the metal-carpet interaction.

It's also been rumored that there's going to be changes in the controller controlers anyway, so the 24 volt switch isn't nearly as dramatic as all you electrical guys are making it seem. If they are switching to 24 volts, they'll be making that hardware switch anyway.

It wouldn't be too hard to track the robots if you had 4 judges (we had 3 in the past?).

Very very interesting post.

Gope
01-01-2003, 02:49 PM
First this is considerably more complex than last year's game because I can already imagine numerous rule tweaks that will have to be dealth with.(FIRST kinda has a problem with overlooking obvious problems)

Second...we're gona shoot(throw) foam balls through the air? Umm, I just dont see this happening because not only will the go a minimal distance and not be remotly accurate, but they will get torn to shreds very easily.

Thrid...If this was real, why would u post it in the rumor mill?

Fourth...Previous years a really really good robot could have a dead partner and beat 2 other robots, but this game will be so complex that I just dont see that as a posibility.

I dunno man, just dosent seem like this is true at all....

Cory
01-01-2003, 03:05 PM
This is simpler? I cant remember anythng in recent years more complex. How gullible do you think we are? I hope you arent serious and you meant this as a joke. Like FIRST is really going to ship us a 10ft rim. Also how reliable do you think this is coming fro someone who joined CD today? I wouldnt even bother reading this thread personally.

(/me is not convinced)


Cory

MJAdams
01-01-2003, 03:13 PM
First off, I'm posting for the sake of arguement only....

Originally posted by Gope
First this is considerably more complex than last year's game because I can already imagine numerous rule tweaks that will have to be dealth with.(FIRST kinda has a problem with overlooking obvious problems)

This is a casual email, not a rulebook. Rule tweaks, of course. This doesn't seem too complex- you're either halfway across or not, you hit the backboard or you don't, you score or you don't. One competent judge per robot makes this pretty simple.


Second...we're gona shoot(throw) foam balls through the air? Umm, I just dont see this happening because not only will the go a minimal distance and not be remotly accurate, but they will get torn to shreds very easily.

I think that Woodie's game hint pretty well suggested some sort of launching...



Thrid...If this was real, why would u post it in the rumor mill?


Because there's no "Confirmed Rumors Mill" ;)



Fourth...Previous years a really really good robot could have a dead partner and beat 2 other robots, but this game will be so complex that I just dont see that as a posibility.


If your robot can shoot 3 or 4 balls into the basket from halfway across the field... you can easily beat two robots that can't.

10 points for a shot off the backboard and into the hoop.

As for Cory's post.. it says they're be shipping the backboard and rim.. and you'd hang it in the air I assume.

Gope
01-01-2003, 03:22 PM
Rule tweaks will be your balls in oponents goals, and how that is scored. Blockage of opponents goals. Destruction of balls. Things like that.

Yes, there probably will be things launched. But those things wont be foam. Anyone knows that to throw something it has to have some weight to it to, otherwise it goes nowhere, and as far as I know, foam(of any kind) is very light, so we will obviously not be throwing foam.

If it were "COFIRMED" then it should have been put into the general discussion board, because something "CONFIRMED" is no longer a rumor.

I suspose you are right on the 2v1 thing, but it still seems very unlikely to me, and it previous years it was rather common.

Jack
01-01-2003, 03:29 PM
The 24v thing is what's making me not beleave this.

I know (well, actually i just highly dought) that we will be using a 24v battery. This would make it so that all teams would need to buy new batterys as back-up. That also means new chargers. This is all to mention that i don't think that the computer can handle 24v besides can the pwm and spikes handel it?

However, if first does go with a 'throwing' type thing, i'll tell you a few things. I'm sure it would be a lot more like basket ball and not football.

Also, if they do stay with the carpet, i'd think it would be cool if they didn't allow metal 'moving devices' (That would really screw the track teams).

Lastly, I'm sure first will try to make the game easier to understand. The easier the game is to understand, the more people will watch it. (Not to mention that it would make robot demos 200% easier :))

Remember all:

This is the Rumor Forum. :)

AJ Quick
01-01-2003, 03:54 PM
Some of it I can believe, but some of it I cannot.

Suneet
01-01-2003, 03:56 PM
If all this is true, methinks JAlbertz will be banished from FIRST by Woodie :p Would he risk that? lol

And yes, those electrical problems look real. InnovationFIRST can always make new models though...

Rob Colatutto
01-01-2003, 04:07 PM
everything on the bots is 12v, the only place your going to find the 24v is in industrial areas on large machinary. FIRST will be shipping each team a rim.....hmm, i believe everything was supposed to be cutting costs this year, foam is out. too destroyable and costly in the end, and you can't make anything to acurately launch them, so why would woodie have given us the formula. in all, a nice try at making a game confirmation, but not good enough


and did anyone notice that the person who started this is in Cali? woodie teaches at MIT in mass.

Joe Ross
01-01-2003, 04:28 PM
Many battlebots use 24 volt systems. The Just becuase the robot controllers in the past haven't supported it doesn't mean that IFI won't make the same changes that they made for battlebots.

rbayer
01-01-2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Joe Ross
Many battlebots use 24 volt systems. The Just becuase the robot controllers in the past haven't supported it doesn't mean that IFI won't make the same changes that they made for battlebots.

Actually, even in the 24V BB robots most control systems still draw either 7V or 12V. Most teams that I've seen actually have separate batteries for the radios and controller.

Anyway, InnovationFIRST has already posted the new RC reference guide (on 12-20-02) and it still says 12V. Now, the RC only draws .75 to 1A, so it is very possible to power the RC off a small NiMH (or NiCad, etc) battery with less than 1Ah and still survive for multiple matches without recharging. This would be kinda cool to see as it would avoid the whole on-off-on-off cycling thing as the voltage in the main circuit drops below 8V.

Ian W.
01-01-2003, 04:52 PM
if i'm not mistaken, the victor speed controllers can handle up to 24 volts as is, spikes wouldn't be hard to change, and it's easy enough for IF to add in a voltage reducer on the RC if they didn't want to change too much. it's feasible.

i just don't think that FIRST would allow this to be leaked now. granted, no ones going to go run with this info, as it's not a confirmed source. oh well, 2 more days, then we find out for sure...

Clark Gilbert
01-01-2003, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Nataku
and did anyone notice that the person who started this is in Cali? woodie teaches at MIT in mass.

If you notice the note it's "signed" by a seth at the end, and addressed to a Jim, so maybe the poster is Jim and the person from Mass. is Seth.

Matt Reiland
01-01-2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Ian W.
if i'm not mistaken, the victor speed controllers can handle up to 24 volts as is, spikes wouldn't be hard to change, and it's easy enough for IF to add in a voltage reducer on the RC if they didn't want to change too much. it's feasible.

i just don't think that FIRST would allow this to be leaked now. granted, no ones going to go run with this info, as it's not a confirmed source. oh well, 2 more days, then we find out for sure...

THere is also a version of the Victors specific to 24V, if you look into some of the battlebot threads, overvolting specific motors (ones that can handle it without self distructing) can give a huge power boost. Also the motor to have is the 24V DeWalt Hammerdrill so maybe if we aren't getting BOSCH's this year they are stepping up to some more serious motors.

In the near future automotive will also be stepping up from what I hear it may be up to 48V.

SlamminSammy
01-01-2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by JAlbertz
You get 3 points for each ball that you score on the close half of the playing field, (one point for hitting the backboard) and 8 points for each basket you score when your robot is COMPLETELY over the halfway line (2 points for hitting the backboard).

For the judge's sake, FIRST usually has scoring based on the final position of objects at the end of the match. This is so the judges can watch and make sure everything the robots are doing are legal during the match. If there are points for making baskets (especially if robot position is a factor) more judges will be needed to specifically watch for this. More judges=more money, money which FIRST does not have.

Dima
01-01-2003, 06:11 PM
First of all if you look back at ALL the privious year of cometition FIRST ALWAYS has the score calculated in the end! thats what matters because A) its easier to judge B) if there is a controversey its easier to solve it!

Next, It is too easy to accidentaly damage the foam balls by say driving your robots corner into them and squizing them between the wall and the robot. There for you can't DisQualify for that. The ball will but out of spec for the next round (damaged ball) so FIRST would have to replace it. Too many to replace very costly. Very unlikelike its foam balls.

10 more pounds to the robot. Yea right. If anything FIRST is trying to cut down on weight of the robot so its easier to take to the field and off the field.

Ballz? NO WAY we had ballz for the last 3 years. Please i would go for something more fresh wouldn't you wouldn't first?

24V? hmmmm maybe....

shiping a hoop that size? give me a break, don't be so rediculous
first never shipping anything that big to the teams.

realized that the last few games were too complicated for the general spectator to understand

this is even harder to understand scoring wize...


SO I say THIS IS MOSTLY BS. GOOD BS but still BS :D

Matt Attallah
01-01-2003, 06:13 PM
RAR!!! Comon, can we all have some fun!! :yikes:

RebAl
01-01-2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by JAlbertz
There are Plexiglas shields 16' tall across the far ends of the playing field, (we're not sure if this is going to be enough to block all the wild shots.)

Ummm, 16 foot plexiglass at all regionals?
dont think so, do i hear $$$$ and big doors?

SlamminSammy
01-01-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Clark Gilbert
If you notice the note it's "signed" by a seth at the end, and addressed to a Jim, so maybe the poster is Jim and the person from Mass. is Seth.

Possible.... 2.973 is an undergrad class. A quick check of the MIT directory for the name 'seth' (http://web.mit.edu/bin/cgicso?query=seth) yields only 1 undergrad, AND the 1 student is in the Mechanical Engineering program, the department Prof. Flowers teaches in. Hmmm...coincidence? I don't care! Either way, I'm just wait until Saturday to be sure of anything.

Joe Ross
01-01-2003, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Dima
First of all if you look back at ALL the privious year of cometition FIRST ALWAYS has the score calculated in the end! thats what matters because A) its easier to judge B) if there is a controversey its easier to solve it!


Not true. Either '94 or '95 had a football goal posts type structure at the top of a hill. You got points for putting balls through the goal posts at any time throughout the match.

Dave Flowerday
01-01-2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Joe Ross
Not true. Either '94 or '95 had a football goal posts type structure at the top of a hill. You got points for putting balls through the goal posts at any time throughout the match.
That was '95. However, there were definitely issues with correct scoring. Some teams could pass the ball through the plane of the goal so fast that the officials counting score would get behind in their counting.

ChrisH
01-01-2003, 08:14 PM
Actually the curved backboard intrigues me. Not that I belive the post in it's entirety, but it might have elements of truth.

If the curve of the backboard is a parabola, then any shots that hit it would be directed towards the focus of the parabola. That would be especially true of shots from between the two baskets. Many light sorces that direct the output of a bulb in a single direction use this principle. Not to mention gas lasers and hundreds of other devices. SO if the basket was located at the focus of the backboard, it would make it easier to hit it.

But the other problems that have been pointed out remain. Not the least of which is the hearsay nature of the post.

Jeff Waegelin
01-01-2003, 08:17 PM
C'mon guys, let's lighten up a bit. This is the rumor mill. There's no need to viciously tear apart what was posted.

The different zones for shooting do seem like a very good idea. If we are shooting balls this year, having something like a basketball 3-point line will help a lot. Teams can shoot from a distance to gain more points, but those who can't shoot can still come up to the hoop and get less points.

Anyways, it is an intriguing idea, though I doubt that this is the real game. Most of what JAlbertz said is possible, even if it isn't probable. I can see many of these elements appearing in the game, though they probably won't all show up. We'll just have to see...

team222badbrad
01-01-2003, 08:59 PM
There is no team #146 in CA or in MASS. Also this guy registered today: 01-01-2003

THIS guy isn't even real nor is he from team 146 as far as im concerned....

Please correct me if there is a team # 146 and where are they from...

Joe Ross
01-01-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by team222badbrad
THIS guy isn't even real nor is he from team 146 as far as im concerned....

Please correct me if there is a team # 146 and where are they from...

Remember that every number was a team at one point. Team 146 is (was) from Manchester. Since he's a college student, his high school team could have been anywhere.

Jay5780
01-01-2003, 09:42 PM
Yes JAlbertz joined the forums today.

Although he/she may be alumni of team 146 (team 146 Blue Lightning from NH is no longer an active team) there are still a couple contributers from this team with us in the forums.

I relize JAlbertz never said that he/she was who the information was orig sent to or where the sender would see them Saturday. I don't think I am the only one who assuemed that the information was sent direct and that they would see each other at the NH kickoff. If this is the case, why would a member of an inactive team be going to kickoff?

And checkout a recent post (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=111425#post111425) from Justin it does mention oppostire things, but it is interesting that he would post out of the blue about the game and then this post a day later.

I love this investigative junk....

Rumors, rumors, rumors. Got to love 'em and hate 'em
It just builds the excitment for kickoff.

Andrew
01-01-2003, 10:12 PM
The innovation first control system manual (updated 12/20/02) says 12V for the RC.
Andrew
Team 356

Matt Leese
01-02-2003, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by Matt Reiland
THere is also a version of the Victors specific to 24V, if you look into some of the battlebot threads, overvolting specific motors (ones that can handle it without self distructing) can give a huge power boost. Also the motor to have is the 24V DeWalt Hammerdrill so maybe if we aren't getting BOSCH's this year they are stepping up to some more serious motors.

In the near future automotive will also be stepping up from what I hear it may be up to 48V.
From a Dewalt engineer, I've been told that the Bosch drill motors are virtually the same as what Dewalt uses. I think there's more difference in the gear box than anything else.

Matt

Matt Leese
01-02-2003, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by Joe Ross
Remember that every number was a team at one point.
Not quite. For instance there was never a team 3 (well, at least with the numbering system we have now; there probably was one before permanent numbers). There also never was a team 666.

Matt

Adam Y.
01-02-2003, 09:01 AM
There also never was a team 666.
Acchhhhh I know that team they live down under if you get what I'm saying.

Brett W
01-02-2003, 09:52 AM
Also it is kinda interesting how this "JalBERt" guy posted this idea and hasn't even tried to defend it. Maybe FIRST hunted him down for exposing such vital information.

VanWEric
01-02-2003, 10:18 AM
perhaps instead of 1 24v battery, we will use 2 12vs. This would allow us to use more juice, but wouldnt require much tweaking. It wouldnt be as exciting as extra volts, but it would allow our bots to last longer. Not that 2 min is a long time, but we did have to make sure we didnt over tax the battery.

Saturday is almost here!

sanddrag
01-02-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by VanWEric
perhaps instead of 1 24v battery, we will use 2 12vs. This would allow us to use more juice, but wouldnt require much tweaking. It wouldnt be as exciting as extra volts, but it would allow our bots to last longer. Not that 2 min is a long time, but we did have to make sure we didnt over tax the battery.

That would add about 14 more pounds to the robot. And we would need another charger.

Gadget470
01-02-2003, 11:05 AM
Well, even if this is true, a few problems arise.

Through the scavenger hunt style research a few of us have done, there is no solid evidence that there is, or isn't, a "Seth" in Woodie's 2.973 Ind. Study class. Or even that Woodie teaches independant study.. or even that it is a classroom format.

Something a bit more problematic is that JAlbertz email from this elusive character states Woodie is revealing the game to people in a classroom format. I doubt he is so naive to think they can't contact other specific teams, or teams in mass (as JAlbertz may have just done).

Also, people whom work for FIRST are under Non-Disclosure Agreement when it comes to the games. Why would FIRST's national advisor express the game's specifics to certain people without agreements...

Maybe FIRST hunted him down for exposing such vital information.
They wouldn't, legally, be able to do anything to him. However, IF there is a Seth, and there is a 2.973 taught by Woodie.. I'm sure some 'Flower Power' would be in order. First, duct tape him to the wall and then I don't think Seth will be recieving a grade that would make his grandmother proud.

There's my pennies, pick apart as you wish

D.J. Fluck
01-02-2003, 11:09 AM
Something doesn't add up. His information is a combination of all of the rumors we have heard before and some of them are probably not even true. Yet these claims of the game are so reasonable, they could be true. Hrm, lets keep quiet and wait less than 48 hrs and see if this person is right. If so, Ill be in shock. If not I will have a good laugh at this individual.

Heh, Dr Joe in 2001, Seth in 2003?? :D

Madison
01-02-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Gadget470
Well, even if this is true, a few problems arise.

Through the scavenger hunt style research a few of us have done, there is no solid evidence that there is, or isn't, a "Seth" in Woodie's 2.973 Ind. Study class. Or even that Woodie teaches independant study.. or even that it is a classroom format.


Well, 2.973 is an independent study. Independent study isn't 'taught' by a professor, traditionally. Instead, it functions as a way for students to receive credit for completing research projects. They ally themselves with any professor in the department who may be conducting similar research. <i>If</i> your independent study involved designing FIRST games, Dr. Flowers would be the person to study under.

I spoke with a friend who attends MIT. There is no way of finding out who is enrolled in any courses.

EDIT: Oh, yeah . . . the people that go to MIT are, traditionally, really, really smart. They don't like to fail and usually can't afford to fail. Independent study sections are usually no more than 3 students. So, this kid failed his course :)

sanddrag
01-02-2003, 11:13 AM
They would have to use all new motors too if the system ran on 24 V.

I will admit this is an EXCELLENT rumor however true or untrue it may be.

Gadget470
01-02-2003, 11:28 AM
I hope it's not true, I honestly do, That would mean there is someone out there with access to the game specifics before kickoff and is willing to release the information ahead of time.

If this is true, I think a burning at the stake is in order. :)

Justin
01-02-2003, 12:10 PM
Hello Everyone,

Last I checked Team 146 was formerly Team Bluelightning from Manchester West High School (I would know as I was on that team). The team disband in 2000 after the sponsor PSNH had to pull out. Manchester West High School is now sponsored by FCI and chose to take a Rookie number. It is possible that FIRST may have assigned 146 to new rookie team out on the West coast, this would greatly sadden me, but last I knew they were retiring old numbers.

-Justin

Jay5780
01-02-2003, 12:13 PM
FIRST does not reissue team numbers. They do this in case a team decides to take a season or more off and then want to return.

Jay5780
01-02-2003, 12:18 PM
How about this scenerio...

The message was sent to JAlbertz from "Jim".

"Jim's" friend "Seth" is taking an independant study at MIT under Woodie.

Woodie said you guys want to do an independant study on FIRST. Well I want you to design your own game as part of it.

So the class came up with there own game and "Seth" bent the truth a bit on how the game information came about.

Matt Leese
01-02-2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by VanWEric
perhaps instead of 1 24v battery, we will use 2 12vs. This would allow us to use more juice, but wouldnt require much tweaking. It wouldnt be as exciting as extra volts, but it would allow our bots to last longer. Not that 2 min is a long time, but we did have to make sure we didnt over tax the battery.

Saturday is almost here!
If you wire two 12 volt batteries in series you have the equivalent of a 24 volt power source.

Matt

Andy Grady
01-02-2003, 12:52 PM
"First of all if you look back at ALL the privious year of cometition FIRST ALWAYS has the score calculated in the end! thats what matters because A) its easier to judge B) if there is a controversey its easier to solve it!"

FYI, you are incorrect in this statement...see Ramp n' Roll. In 1995 Robots had a running score for the amount of times they passed a ball through a goal post.

I love the basketball theme though...would be cool if the game this year was something like that.

Peace!
-Andy Grady


p.s. Has anyone noticed the similarities of this post to a post written on this thread a few years back by a certain wacky midwesterner that got him into a little bit of trouble with FIRST???

Amber H.
01-02-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Gadget470
I hope it's not true, I honestly do, That would mean there is someone out there with access to the game specifics before kickoff and is willing to release the information ahead of time.

If this is true, I think a burning at the stake is in order. :)

I seriously hope that this person is just pulling a hoax to keep us all busy until kickoff. Mr. Kamen does not take well to leakers.

I know this because I was still married to one of his employees when the Segway HT was introduced on GMA. He wanted to unveil it to the people at DEKA the Friday before as a special sort of treat as long as they kept quiet about it.
An announcement was made company wide that morning, and within munites, some unknown empoloyee had posted it on the internet.
Mr. Kamen was very upset. From the report I got three days later, He had a very hard time accapting that he had been betrayed by one of his own.
the event was immediately cancelled and the people at DEKA had to wait a few more days like the rest of the world.

If this person's information is true and he has posted the information to feel powerful, he has hurt Mr. Kamen. Not a good thing in my book.


I hope that it is not true.

BoticsPUNK
01-02-2003, 04:15 PM
This guy doesn't sound very trustworthy but hey who am i to judge. It would truely be a first in the history of robotics. Although if the 2003 game is quite similar or exactally to what this guy says im sure there will be **** to pay or it could be one of the biggest upsets this message board has ever seen.









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Jay5780
01-02-2003, 08:09 PM
Earlier tonight I rememberd what I read in the 2002 FIRST Forum notes...

1. 2003 will be challenging, designed to be conducive for television, EASIER and LESS CONTROVERSIAL scoring.

2. The Game is well along (as of the forum)

3. A game design group will be used to review.

I don't know how long the independant study lasts, but as I said the game was well along back at the forum. Also this game mentioned dosen't fit into the criteria of number 1

We'll see in a little less than a day and a half.

Jeff Waegelin
01-02-2003, 08:15 PM
You're right in saying that the aforementioned game doesn't meet criteria #1, however, some of the elements of that game would. The basketball-style hoops would be easy to understand, though keeping a running total would be more difficult. It's hard to say.

Jay5780
01-02-2003, 08:32 PM
I think if there is anything to this was a preliminary game format and would change to this...

2 vs 2.

1 low central neutral basket

1 high basket at each end color coded for each team

Balls in center goal 1 point based on color

Balls in opponents goal 1 point (teams have to defend there goal)

2 zones offensive and defensive (keeps you away from your goal at end) Zones are 2x multiplyer

Now that is easy to watch, keep score, and still keeps the 3x losers score

If not this year maybe next year will have footballs...

Tim_Wochomurka
01-04-2003, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by Ricky Q.

Exceeding the +15.0V limit may damage internal voltage regulators and
will void the warranty.

What's a "warranty?"

tenfour
01-04-2003, 12:53 AM
Come on you bunch of egg heads.

Could the poster have messed with it??

Cory
01-04-2003, 01:09 AM
I personally do not believe this, but what if there was a basketball hoop and all, but under the hoop, a tube/basket was mounted that would catch all of the scored balls. Voila! no more controversial scoring, the evidence is right there.


Cory

JAlbertz
01-04-2003, 11:59 AM
See, Jim and Seth were almost right on!

Good luck everyone!