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View Full Version : Stop Posting About Negative Scores


Adam Y.
01-12-2003, 09:59 AM
You know it's not going to happen and it's getting quite annoying because there are sooo many topics about it. Focus on the robot and let first fix the rules.

redbeard0531
01-12-2003, 11:09 AM
But dont you agree that the current rules are way too copmlex. Tell me in 1 sentace what an SHU is. While it added a twist to gamplay when they rounded up, now it just seems as if the are covering tail for a bad idea, as opposed to just scrapping it.

Please take a look at the revised petition in my sig. Due to an error im my calculations(caused by screwy scoring system), I realized that negative points are very unlikely,so i removed all referances to them. Take a look, It has a 1LINE scoring system for boxes, that leaves nothing to interpritation.

Adam Y.
01-12-2003, 11:16 AM
Tell me in 1 sentace what an SHU is.
It's the biggest pile of blocks that your robot isn't touching and is in the scooring area. What is so hard about that??

redbeard0531
01-12-2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by wysiswyg
It's the biggest pile of blocks that your robot isn't touching and is in the scooring area.

Thats a "stack" not an "SHU". I'm using their terms. Also, that is no longer the definition of a stack. It is now as per team update 3 "the tallest legal point/place/location in a scoring zone".Folowed by a page of leagalese.

now, i'll say it again, what is an SHU?

Adam Y.
01-12-2003, 11:34 AM
Ooo thats easy its the height of the block when it is right side up. 14 3/4" I believe. If you had a stack of 4 blocks right side up then it would be a shu of 4.

redbeard0531
01-12-2003, 11:39 AM
Actualy 14.75. but that is not the point. Why should it be based on the height as opposed to the number of boxes in the stack?

Don Knight
01-12-2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by redbeard0531
now, i'll say it again, what is an SHU? [/B]
SHU is a unit of measurement to determine the multiplier, the multiplier is determined by measuring the height of the tallest container in a teams scoring area that is not being touched by the scoring teams robot.

redbeard0531
01-12-2003, 01:10 PM
Why are we doing it by hieght. why not just the number of boxes stacked 1 atop another

Jeremy_Mc
01-12-2003, 01:18 PM
because that wouldn't allow for "interesting and subtle consequences"...

i wouldn't have a problem with the scoring if they would change the virtual stack rule.

*jeremy

meaubry
01-12-2003, 01:39 PM
Please don't tell people what to post and what not to. There has always been plenty of room for everyones opinion. Sometimes, through discussing these things, we all learn more. Please keep posting - carry on

DanLevin247
01-12-2003, 03:38 PM
I feel sorry for the judges, and for the spectators this year. FIRST has always strived for excellence, and year after year...have tried to make the game easier on everybody...but this year was different, or so we thought. Everything started out great...nice and easy to understand, then these radical and pointless rules were introduced, making this game confusing, and potentially causing teams to have to change their strategy or even have to scrap the designs for their robots.



FIRST, Mr. Kamen, Mr. Flowers and all those brilliant individuals who make FIRST so great for all of us, please, hear the voices of the young adults involved with your amazing program, and help us, make this game easy to understand and play!

Adam Y.
01-12-2003, 03:42 PM
Please don't tell people what to post and what not to. There has always been plenty of room for everyones opinion. Sometimes, through discussing these things, we all learn more. Please keep posting - carry on
Don't you find it annoying that there are about 5 topics carrying on about the same thing. I'm not telling people to stop discussing it. I'm telling them to stop posting new topics about the same thing. The whole portal when I opened it up today had almost all the topics about negative scores. Isn't that a little bit to excessive when all you need is one topic??

MacZealot
01-12-2003, 03:54 PM
What I find funny is no matter how many times the rules have been scoured and it's been proven there's absolutely no likelyhood of negative scores HAPPENING, and even though it COULD, but WILL NOT, people are still posting about it and talking about how horrible things are.

Greg Ross
01-12-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by meaubry
Please don't tell people what to post and what not to. There has always been plenty of room for everyones opinion. Sometimes, through discussing these things, we all learn more. Please keep posting - carry on
Hey Aubry, Isn't it ironic that in telling Wysiswyg not to tell others what to post or not, you are telling him what not to post? ;)

DanLevin247
01-12-2003, 04:28 PM
I'm not complaining about negative scores, but the game has quickly grown to be very complex and hard to follow.

Joe Ross
01-12-2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by gwross
Hey Aubry, Isn't it ironic that in telling Wysiswyg not to tell others what to post or not, you are telling him what not to post? ;)

And yet, wysiswyg started another discussion about what he didn't want people to discuss ;)

meaubry
01-12-2003, 04:42 PM
I understand your frustration about people posting the same stuff and stating new threads about essentially the same topic, but it sounded more like you telling rather than asking. We are trying to moderate these posts and threads and Brandon is doing a great job moving them to the best or most appropriate area. Many registered members are doing a great job linking threads when they see duplicates and we thank you all for that.
As a moderator - it is sometimes needed to remind everyone to just relax a bit and not get to worked up about what and how many times people post their opinions and ideas.
This time of the year - the boards go crazy and even with the new (and very nice features) that Brandon has added, people sometimes forget, or don't see that what they are posting really is the same as one that already is started.
My point was just to not try and censure opinions because someone didn't see that another very similar topic thread exists.
Ironic that I had to say that? I thought that was was moderators did. As my friend Andy Baker said, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain", he just trying to moderate.
Hey, does a moderator have to be a moderate?

Katie Reynolds
01-12-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Joe Ross
And yet, wysiswyg started another discussion about what he didn't want people to discuss ;)
Heh. That's exactly what I was thinking.

- Katie

illumanat'i
01-12-2003, 07:05 PM
read this post (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=117609#post117609)

they obviously want their to be negative points, the rule makes other parts of stack counting easier (like pyramid stacks)

my question is WHY WOULD YOU EVEN WANT TO GIVE SOMEONE A NEGATIVE SCORE???? think, your qualifing points, the points that advance you through the competition, the good happy points everyone wants, is your alliance score plus two times the opponent's score.... you get 45 points, and give the other team, lets say -20 points, you get 45 + (-40) to get a QP of 5

thats bad, no one wants 5 QPs, and you could give your self much worse if you give them a lower score... you want their score to be as close to yours as possible without them winning...

to quote dlavery, any team who gives their opponent's a negative score will get attacked with cheese so they never do it again...

there is NOTHING else to be said about this topic, go build a robot or something

JLambert
01-12-2003, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by illumanat'i
there is NOTHING else to be said about this topic, go build a robot or something

Ditto.

Why not try to do something constructive. Do you honestly think sitting here and pleading with everyone to agree with you will get anything done? I personally have my own opinion on this, but it doesn't matter. Rules exist for a reason. Maybe they are complex, oh well. The Constitution of the United States is 3000 times more complicated than any FIRST rule. Are you going to go to Congress and tell them they should dumb it down so everyone is satisfied?

Mike Rush
01-13-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by redbeard0531
Actualy 14.75. but that is not the point. Why should it be based on the height as opposed to the number of boxes in the stack?

So the scoring at the competitions will be faster. If there were a pile of boxes, how would you determine thie number in the stack? Its easy with a stick marked for height. Put the stick next to the pile ( or stack ) determine the height in SHU's and wa-la... a number appears in a matter of seconds rather than trying to dissassemble the pile and try to determine how man boxes high it is.

dlavery
01-13-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by JLambert
The Constitution of the United States is 3000 times more complicated than any FIRST rule. Are you going to go to Congress and tell them they should dumb it down so everyone is satisfied?

Now THAT might be a productive use of our time and energies! Or at least tell them to start with simplifying the tax code! :)

-dave

Amber H.
01-13-2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by dlavery
Now THAT might be a productive use of our time and energies! Or at least tell them to start with simplifying the tax code! :)

-dave

THANK YOU MR. LAVERY!

Three points to his excellency, the Lord High Chamberlain of Krispy Kreme!

Wetzel
01-13-2003, 01:40 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DanLevin247
Everything started out great...nice and easy to understand, then these radical and pointless rules were introduced, making this game confusing, and potentially causing teams to have to change their strategy or even have to scrap the designs for their robots.[/QUOTE

The rules always alowed the virtual stack manuver, you just had to read, then think about. Unfortunatly, I couldn't convince my rookie team that giving the other team points was a GOOD thing. :rolleyes:

Dave and Dean and Woddie are crafty ones, and they WANT you to have to THINK about solving the problem, not just having a straght forward way to dominate. So what if the game is confusing, that just adds to the challenge. Remember the time multiplier from 2001? Or the zones from 2002? This can be just as hard or easy to explain to others depending on how much you THINK about how to explain it.

You are givin a set of rules for a game you decided to play. Work within them, don't complain that they are to hard to understand.

Think: It's what Dean would do.



Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~~~
Just think it.

SharkBite
01-13-2003, 03:17 PM
SERIOUSLY what is this all about? this is the easiest game to understand in YEARS! of course it is hard to describe to spectators... it always has been.......... if the game were "too simple" all the robots would be too similiar

i still dont understand where this negative score thing came from either.... someone was describing it and there were a few obvious misunderstandings... there wont be negative scores

basically if you are brand new to FIRST... it is perfectly fine to post things but make sure you talk to a few senior members on your team first if you think there is a big problem with the rules... chances are you misunderstood something and you will confuse all the other new people and cause long chains of postings about something that isnt really a problem

Tyler Stevens
01-13-2003, 03:44 PM
What is this all about? The rule is still the same...there is no difference...all they did was reword it.

In Team Update #3, they state that:

"The height of the tallest stack located in the scoring zone is subtracted from the TOTAL NUMBER OF CONTAINERS to establish the base score."

MEANING that the TOTAL NUMBER OF CONTAINERS refers to ALL of the containers located in the scoring zone.

i.e. INCLUDING THE ONES IN THE TALLEST STACK.

Therefore, this rule is EXACTLY the same as it was before, the update was meant only to clarify the rule. Thus, NEGATIVE SCORES ARE NOT POSSIBLE.

If I'm wrong on this, than I apologize, but it seems to be quite clear that all this talk about negative scores was just a misinterpretation of the rules.

This is a good thing so don't everyone go complaining it's in the spirt of FIRST Which means everyone is a winner.