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View Full Version : What do you use scouting for?


Jack
03-30-2003, 06:55 PM
Ok, this is just a question to teams:

What do you use scouting for?

Team 201 mostly just uses scouting to pick alliance partners if we're in the top 8. We also use the data we've collected to formulate a stragety against our oppotent during a match, but this does not really get used much.

Another way to read this question would be:

How much of the data you collect do you actually use? (25%, 75%, 100%??)

Lastly, if a scouting network was created over this summer (who's developement would be open to all), would your team be willing to use it and submit data to it? Also, how useful do you think data, from a network like this, would be?

Jack

Pin Man
03-30-2003, 07:08 PM
you can decide on a strategy against certain teams...

Powers
03-30-2003, 07:11 PM
We use scouting mainly to see if we can push the other guy around... we used it a couple of times to see where to put the boxes in hp mode

Ryan Albright
03-30-2003, 08:06 PM
Yes there is alot of good uses for strategy. We use it to see if they have ai and if they are against us to plan agaisnt it. Helps us check out are alliance partners to see if we are gonna have to do more work to win or if we have a good alliance partner. and a good stratgey against the other team like who to totally knock out if we need to

Pin Man
03-30-2003, 09:08 PM
I spend have the competition scouting...

Ryan Albright
03-31-2003, 10:37 AM
we actually have a team that scouts and then when we get are assignments on who we are with, the drivers go out and talk to the the teams they are with and against

Joel Glidden
03-31-2003, 10:44 AM
We use scouting primarily to see who we'll be able to push around and how fast their auto is. All I really want to know is how many motors they've got in the drive train and if they've got them geared higher or lower than us. We also like to know before hand if a team has a tendancy to take stacks out arbitrarily. For building our pick list for eliminations we used video more than anything. We must have watched three hours of matches Friday night... *yawn*

-Joel

Joel J
03-31-2003, 11:01 AM
We use scouting for.. something. I scout to know what I am up against. :)

Soukup
03-31-2003, 11:08 AM
At midwest, we were paired with alot of rookie teams and they didn't really know much strategy. So our scouting came in use when trying to figure out autonomous modes and and basic functions. We had three or four main guys that did aqlot of work. And we tried to split it up amongst our team, but most of them didn't care, and just made up results and stuff. So at west michigan, we'll have our main scouters, figuring out what other teams do. That way we can pick partners (if in top 8) or we can form strategy against other teams.

Josh Hambright
03-31-2003, 11:37 AM
Our team had just used an excel type spreadsheet to organize data (which didn't do much good)

So this year we have been developing an access database to organize it all, but we are learning as we go...

We scouted all but 4 teams in cleveland (thats 60 teams) and all but a few in chicago...

We just used ours to look up info on oponents before matches and also to find out what our allies can do... the section where we recorded what peoples autonomous could do was especialy useful.

If we had ever been in a picking position we would have probably used the scouting to pick alliances also..we had a whole system set up that would rank people based on certain specifics that we could pick... cool stuff...

Our team would LOVE to get involved with some kinda of open source type project for scouting...where everyone works together and developes stuff for it, like software for different platforms and such... Lets do it!

Kojib
03-31-2003, 11:38 AM
In my opinion, we have a very nice scouting set-up. Everyone on the team must scout. They are assigned in groups of 4-5 for approx. 1.5 hour shifts. Those not scouting are either free to do as they please, or in the pit. We use the information we gather while scouting (we scout during qualifiying rounds and practice rounds) to accomplish many tasks. First of all, it allows us to see how teams perform rather than what they say they can do. Because of this our alliance is stronger due to the fact that we don't overestimate the performance of our partner. We also have a general idea of how the opposing teams can compete. Both in terms of strategy and robot/driver capabilities. By scouting nearly every round, we are also able to get a more "full" picture of a teams performance, as often drivers will perform better as the competition progresses. Because every match is scouted, every team is scouted several times. Going into the finals, we average every team's performance, giving us a good overall view, rather than "In this match they really excelled, so they must be good all the time" That's about it...

tonyargote
03-31-2003, 12:02 PM
As a driver, i go out scouting with my coach and some others. I can tell you, we only use scouting to plan out which autonomous mode program to use, depending on the speed and strength of other robots, otherwise, we adapt our strategy on the field. I don't think anyone actually was able to plan out a whole match by scouting and strategizing. This game is mostly who ever can get the most boxes in automode, and then you move them back and forth to manipulate your score. If you don't ahve a great automode, your probably (no always) at a disadvantage

jmort03
03-31-2003, 12:24 PM
we use ours to find info on the robots that are in the upcoming matches mostly, and it also worked very well when we picked 201 at midwest regional, i really didnt get to see their robot but the scouts kept telling me about it, and when it came to pick, i had to pick them, all of my scouting sheets all had good info on 201's robot. Scouting helps alot with the game...it gives a team a heads up on whats to come...

thanks 201, and da bears on being a great alliance partners...
you guys rocked!:D

Pin Man
03-31-2003, 03:40 PM
Scouting makes the competition so much easier

LongBoardSurfer
04-05-2003, 11:16 PM
I spend all competition on a laptop doing data entry and we use the info every round to know exactly what to expect.

MRL180YTL2002
04-09-2003, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Pin Man
Scouting makes the competition so much easier

It also makes strategizing easier as you know what EXACTLY (well almost) you're up against. Again believe it or not, it helps in the pits. Why? Less to fix...i.e. you know if you can't move them and they have a brake...don't burn out your motors trying to move them, etc...

J Flex 188
04-09-2003, 08:00 PM
scouting is amazingly tedious at times.. (Come on.. who can actually sit for at least 3-4 hours at a time,even with great 'bots on the field) but also amazingly useful.. at west michigan we had 2 seperate teams of people on different sides of the field, watching each match, ranking each robot, coming up with our own top 24 list and then ranking them again with drive team input and discussion between the groups.. quite effective i should think = )

Pin Man
04-14-2003, 06:37 PM
One of the main reasons why people pick us is because we have the best palm scouting... We have won some awards for it...

odin892
04-14-2003, 06:58 PM
Most all the students on our team scout if they are in the stands. Usually we only have scouting left over from the practice matches because when the information would be useful it is still in the stands with whoever evaluated the teams.

MissDaisyGirl
04-14-2003, 07:29 PM
Scouting I know is not really seen as being that important to a lot of new arrivals on my team but the veterans know how pertinent it is. If my coach asks me what a team does and I don't know, I feel as if I have let my team down b/c of how important it is. Every round I tell my coach what to expect from a team and any interesting plays they have had thruout the day. Sometimes the people in the booth may never use the information but when they do it was all worth it. It may not seem like sitting in the stands with a laptop is very hard but it is a very stressful job as my successor on my team has found out. Scouting was especially useful this yr b/c we were in picking position in Galileo. The following is a picture of our database, we use Filemaker Pro.

Jared Russell
04-15-2003, 04:17 PM
Scouting got us teams 175 and 236, neither of whom was seeded particularly high, but with whom we won our division.

Thanks scouting crew ;)

Aignam
04-15-2003, 06:21 PM
Scouting for Team 25 is used to help pick alliance partners, to strategize against opponents, to find strengths in our qualifying round partners, and sometimes even to help other teams. We used printed sheets with spaces for crucial information for the pit scouting, and sheets that assist the scout in recording the match for round scouting. We dedicate most of the team's manpower to pit scouting during practice rounds, and anywhere from four to six scouts to round scouting during qualifying rounds. And even then I handed out tiny memo pads at nationals for anybody else to record anything noteable. Yes, we here on team 25 are always busy. If anyone wants a copy of the sheets used by 25 for either pit or round scouting, PM me and request a copy, I'd be more than glad to get it to you.

Sophey Chan
04-15-2003, 07:39 PM
Well, I was the scout for our team this year, and I can tell you this much, scouting is good to see what your alliance partner does most of the time for our team. We decide whether or not to put delays in our auto, who should run what auto, and so on. It also helps you with stragedy, knowing who does what with their bot, whether or not people could go under the bar this year, and so on. It also let you knwo what you where up against. I know some of the time I was helping other teams plan stragedies based on the things I had calculated, and I was liek a "Human Database" asmy friends called me. Most of the teams whom I knew people on, helped me talk stragedy over with our alliances a lot, like poor ol 662 and my firends here, and also HeatWave, I could do their scouting or them, and talk over stragedy with their scouters and such. I dunno, I find it a useful waste of time, but it is hard to do with only 3 people on your team, lol.

CAD-Demigod45
04-15-2003, 07:45 PM
The most frustrating thing about scouting is that the scouts spend so much time doing it, and see very little of the results. On my team, a few key adults look over the heap of info and only god knows what gets used.

Sophey Chan
04-15-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by CAD-Demigod45
The most frustrating thing about scouting is that the scouts spend so much time doing it, and see very little of the results. On my team, a few key adults look over the heap of info and only god knows what gets used.


lol, no kidding, I was talkig to your team and 74 near the end and it was like the drive team said "I dunno who we are picking that is the scouter job" That was a lttle odd, to not see your alliance partners play and then pick them, ya know?

Chris Nowak
04-15-2003, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Sophey Chan
lol, no kidding, I was talkig to your team and 74 near the end and it was like the drive team said "I dunno who we are picking that is the scouter job" That was a lttle odd, to not see your alliance partners play and then pick them, ya know?

sorry about that. Its not true in the slightest. The human player on our team, David, who is known as TEAM_74 on these boards, was in a massive hurry at that point. Saying that our scouting team decided who we picked was a lie, actually we worked closely with them and it was more of our decision. In the end David is the guy responsible for the choice. I think he was kind of in a hurry at that point and he was sick of all the people coming around asking us to pick them.

Sophey Chan
04-15-2003, 08:36 PM
I know, I was saying in general, liek if you went and talked to the scouting team durning reg comp, most scouter were liek talk to the drive team, and the drive team during pairings were liek talk to te scouters type of deal. I know I talked to erg, I don't mean to be mean, but the short guy on your team, and he had no clue what you all's alliane partners did, and I think he was in pit, not too sure, but he said the scouters picked. Yep, your HP was really nice, and did question all the people wanted to be picked by you (I was there silly), and I knwo you all talked to the other teams like Delphi (45) wouldn't denounced your offer and such, I know I know, I was there, I talked some stragedy over with ya all's team, and even cheered for you all in the finals, and talked to one of your coaches, liek when Buzzed got DQed for intentinal tpping, lol, I knew more bout your team than you prob know, lol.

Chris Nowak
04-15-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Sophey Chan
I know, I was saying in general, liek if you went and talked to the scouting team durning reg comp, most scouter were liek talk to the drive team, and the drive team during pairings were liek talk to te scouters type of deal. I know I talked to erg, I don't mean to be mean, but the short guy on your team, and he had no clue what you all's alliane partners did, and I think he was in pit, not too sure, but he said the scouters picked. Yep, your HP was really nice, and did question all the people wanted to be picked by you (I was there silly), and I knwo you all talked to the other teams like Delphi (45) wouldn't denounced your offer and such, I know I know, I was there, I talked some stragedy over with ya all's team, and even cheered for you all in the finals, and talked to one of your coaches, liek when Buzzed got DQed for intentinal tpping, lol, I knew more bout your team than you prob know, lol.

wow...I didnt realize you hung out with us so much. Yeah, you shouldnt pay attention to the short one. Hes the operator but he doesnt ever get involved in scouting.

Sophey Chan
04-15-2003, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by Chris Nowak
wow...I didnt realize you hung out with us so much. Yeah, you shouldnt pay attention to the short one. Hes the operator but he doesnt ever get involved in scouting.


lol, yea, I knwo a o about the teams I did hang out with, Hence me being the "Huan Database" according to a ot of my friend, I felt sorry for Heatwave when I knew someone who went agianst them, could give the whole layout of their bot and the weak points and such, lol, but I didn't, that wouldn't of been cool, but I could inform of the auto and such, lots of fun. You all, I jsut know what happened and stuff, not details of the bot, liek I did with 312 and such. Go me, I REMEMBER what I socut, lol.

Halon
04-17-2003, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by Sophey Chan
I know some of the time I was helping other teams plan stragedies based on the things I had calculated, and I was liek a "Human Database" asmy friends called me. Most of the teams whom I knew people on, helped me talk stragedy over with our alliances a lot, like poor ol 662

Yeah, your scouting binder helped us out a lot. I think we actually did have some scouters on the team, but I never saw any filled-out scouting sheets and they all stayed in the Stadium where the drivers never went except for when we had matches.
Thanks again for helping us out with scouting!

Sophey Chan
04-19-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Halon
Yeah, your scouting binder helped us out a lot. I think we actually did have some scouters on the team, but I never saw any filled-out scouting sheets and they all stayed in the Stadium where the drivers never went except for when we had matches.
Thanks again for helping us out with scouting!


Its so ironic you should post this, cause just yesterday I was talking to Dan, on PAW, and I was referring to the matces with you and how in our first macthes I had to go and do the scouting, cause the other team wouldn't tell you anything, lol. Yea well you guys are my buddies! And the suppliers of the AutoDesk Slapbracelet's.

Halon
04-19-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Sophey Chan
Its so ironic you should post this, cause just yesterday I was talking to Dan, on PAW, and I was referring to the matces with you and how in our first macthes I had to go and do the scouting, cause the other team wouldn't tell you anything, lol. Yea well you guys are my buddies! And the suppliers of the AutoDesk Slapbracelet's.

Yeah, even when other teams did give us info, your scouting binder usually helped us out more. I remember asking one team if their drills were locked into high or low gear, and they didn't know. I then asked them what they used the three sensors mounted horizontally on the front of their robot for, and they said that they were used for their dead reckoning program. That was pretty funny. Hopefully I'll see you at regionals or nationals next year. Where were you when everyone was packing up their robots? I went to look for you to say goodbye, but all I found was a box of donuts. And I almost ate them, too.
By the way, How many of those Autodesk bracelets did you get from me? I used to have a lot, and now I only have one left...:(

Sophey Chan
04-20-2003, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Halon
Where were you when everyone was packing up their robots? I went to look for you to say goodbye, but all I found was a box of donuts. And I almost ate them, too.
By the way, How many of those Autodesk bracelets did you get from me? I used to have a lot, and now I only have one left...:(


I was recording matches and eating before that, I wanted to stay, but my team wouldn't let me, bah on them. LoL. You coulda eaten them, I don't liek Doughnut. Senors for dead rek? hat is odd...o.O I dunno, most people are pretty nice to me about scouting, but then I retain all the info and do bad in my classes in school, cause all I can remember is heat wave goes 16 feet per second and stuff. I ended up getting 4 auto desk bracelete's from you, 1 from Bosch, 2 from Oak Ridge, 1 from a chicka on Oakridge, 1 from Heatwave 1 from 555, and 1 from MOE

ellenchisa
04-28-2003, 09:12 AM
okay, anyway, getting back on topic..

We use scouting to know as much as we possibly can about our alliances and opponents during qualifying. That decides how we'll play the match out to use everything we have. It also let's you know how reliable your alliance partner will be. (Watching the rounds scouting)
We also have scouts in the pits, finding out about the functions (and then they can watch and see if they are used), and how strong the drive train will be.

Then, come eliminations, the scouts and drive team can compile a list of the team's they think we would work well with. An important part of the alliance is if they compliment us (if we're in the top 8 that is) not just how high they're ranked. And of course the same thing about scouting your opponents in eliminations.

We have scouting sheets that we fill out, but we think the most important aspect is just having a feel for the robot. Why does it matter if they can go 20 ft/sec if their drivers don't know how to use it? So, that's how we do scouting.

If you read the next thread about forming a database, I think that would be great and save a lot of time that would otherwise have scouts in the pits. That way, scouts could simply WATCH, not have to worry about sheets, and get a good feel for a given set of bots. Umm...also on that note, I should probably put it over there too.
Would we be able to record how a robot did in the database after they competed in a regional? I think that would be useful to everyone...

I think we're one of the low tech teams because our scouting is done on papers in binders (that's when it's good)...or random sheets (bad!). So if anyone has a system they'd like to explain to me and show me how to use... that would be awesome! Private message me, or AIM Idreamincolor62

Anyways, there's my thoughts on scouting systems.