PDA

View Full Version : pic: Most Controversial Match


CD47-Bot
04-06-2003, 08:48 PM
[cdm-description=photo]15641[/cdm-description]

Rich Wong
04-06-2003, 08:49 PM
Please tell us why it is the most controversial match.

Thanks.:)

Daniel Brim
04-06-2003, 08:59 PM
Ok, here goes

It was the most contreversial match because:

Clark (696) was all the way on the ramp, We (294) would have been on the ramp, but the ramp was moved out of place and was touching our robot. 60 was clearly on because the clips were on the ramp.


From this, several questions arise:

In the rules it says breaking the ramp is illegal and results in disqualification. The only parts that could have broken the ramp was our arm, which snapped, but we kept it up, or 60's ramp clips, which could be in itself illegal because the rules also state that you cannot grap onto the ramp for position.


So from this reasoning:

The alliance with 60 might have been DQ'd for moving the grating, making the losing alliance the winners.


I am not bitter :-) In fact, I felt that the other alliance had a well played win :-) Just my thoughts.

Shawn60
04-06-2003, 09:00 PM
We took film of the match. I will see what I can dig up and post some pics of the end.

Shawn

Daniel Brim
04-06-2003, 09:01 PM
I would like that as well :-)

Nice victory and thank you :-)

Kristina
04-06-2003, 09:02 PM
I was at LA and while I thought this was a really exciting match, I don't think it was the most controversial. The reason why it might be dubbed this though was because it was the last final match and the blue alliance had one robot up there (60) and the red alliance had two up there (294 & 696). This would have been enough for red to win because they would have gotten 50 poitns and blue would have gotten nothing since 60's robot was still clinched down to the mesh part of the ramp. However the mesh of the ramp got moved slightly up from wear and tear and there was a little part of the ramp touching one of the red robot's wheels. Since both of the red robots were touching each other and one was touching the ramp, neither were counted so it just came down to boxes in the end. The reason why I say it isn't that controversial is because even if red got 50 points they still needed more to surpass blue's first match win. It was still a great match nonetheless and kept us all in suspense as they tallied it all up.

edit: Ah, from Daniel's response posted at the same time as I was writing mine I can see why it would be controversial. Great attitude though, guess that's how you guys won the sportsmanship award.

Travis Covington
04-06-2003, 09:23 PM
I really don’t think this was the most controversial match either.

Even if both our alliances robots were on the ramp, it wouldn’t have secured our total QP win because team 60 was not on the ramp, thus giving us minimal points for the 2x loser score bonus points.

The first match however was a lot closer, the 696 robot was not on the ramp, literally <1mm from being on the ramp. The first match score was 51 to 57 with the one robot being 1mm off the ramp.

I have to say that team 60 is extremely fast and definitely deserved this win. As always team 60 had a great,efficient, winning design.

Thanks to teams 696 and 294 for a great alliance!

Daniel Brim
04-06-2003, 09:25 PM
lol like I said in another thread. we lost by || this much.

Gope
04-06-2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by DanielBCR
60's ramp clips, which could be in itself illegal because the rules also state that you cannot grap onto the ramp for position.


Nope, rules no longer say that, in an update(i don't remember which), that rule was changed to say that you can interact with the mesh but are only allowed to protrude 1/8 inch below it.

Daniel Brim
04-06-2003, 09:30 PM
Ok, did not see that, sorry 60 :-)

Kristina
04-06-2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by DanielBCR
lol like I said in another thread. we lost by || this much.

Same exact thing happened for us. Our partner was on the ramp by that much too and had they not been, the match woulda been ours <sigh> and it could have been us against your alliance. Oh well, it was still a great comp!!!

Rob Colatutto
04-06-2003, 09:56 PM
in one match, we somehow managed to snag that 1 inch metal strip on the bottom of the ramps, broke it, and pulled a good 2 feet of it up. they took time out to repair the field after that, but no penalties or dq's were given to us

Madison
04-06-2003, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Gope
Nope, rules no longer say that, in an update(i don't remember which), that rule was changed to say that you can interact with the mesh but are only allowed to protrude 1/8 inch below it.

Show me, please.

Stephen Kowski
04-06-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by DanielBCR


In the rules it says breaking the ramp is illegal and results in disqualification. The only parts that could have broken the ramp was our arm, which snapped, but we kept it up, or 60's ramp clips, which could be in itself illegal because the rules also state that you cannot grap onto the ramp for position.

So from this reasoning:

The alliance with 60 might have been DQ'd for moving the grating, making the losing alliance the winners.


were they actually grabbing (meaning encircling or going through the ramp), or were they just bracing themselves on top of it?

Travis Covington
04-06-2003, 10:44 PM
60 was simply placing their arms feet inside the first of the 2 wires on the grating. It only protruded enough to grab the the upper horizontal wire and did not protrude past the bottom one.

Nothing was against the rules, and the ruling was fair.

Please leave it at that. They deserved the win.

Thanks you guys for a great competition.

Amanda M
04-06-2003, 11:28 PM
Wow! That was a great match! And thank you guys, for all of the nice things you have said.

The design we have for our feet does not penetrate through (as was said earlier).

We of Team 60 want to thank 294, 968, and 696 for an awesome competition. The finals were great!

And for those of 696, you killed our "legs"! Be prepared to be getting a nice "trophy" in the mail! haha

Amanda

Redhead Jokes
04-07-2003, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by Amanda M
The design we have for our feet does not penetrate through (as was said earlier).


Mentor Mark Miller respectfully http://www.edogawa-u.ac.jp/coll/images/ani_bowing_samurai.gif
asks how do you control the ramp holders (what kind of motors and controls) and why didn't they go up at the end of the finals match?

I wanted a pic of kowtow for this post, but couldn't find it.
"To kneel and touch the forehead to the ground in expression of deep respect, worship, or submission, as formerly done in China."

edit: Ah, from Daniel's response posted at the same time as I was writing mine I can see why it would be controversial. Great attitude though, guess that's how you guys won the sportsmanship award.

:D He's a keeper!

sanddrag
04-07-2003, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by Amanda M
And for those of 696, you killed our "legs"! Be prepared to be getting a nice "trophy" in the mail! haha

Amanda Hey I know you! We'll be looking forward to the package and we'll be sending that horn too. Good luck at the Championship!

Daniel Brim
04-07-2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by Travis Covington
60 was simply placing their arms feet inside the first of the 2 wires on the grating. It only protruded enough to grab the the upper horizontal wire and did not protrude past the bottom one.

Nothing was against the rules, and the ruling was fair.

Please leave it at that. They deserved the win.

Thanks you guys for a great competition.

I didn't know how deep the grippers on 60 were. Sorry if I offended anyone. I think I speak for all of 294 that we are VERY pleased with the performance at Phoenix, and our enemies performance as well :-) See you guys next year

David Brinza
04-07-2003, 02:44 AM
The situation on the ramp for the red alliance's robots (696 and 294) was a repeat of the end of the final match at the SCRRF scrimmage held at Chatsworth a few days before the robots shipped. In the last match of the SCRRF final, Team 207's tread was just touching the mesh and a corner of 207 was just touching Team 974's robot. In this case, though, the result of the final was reversed. Our alliance (207, 974 and 980) was initially announced as the champions, but the rule book was subsequently consulted regarding robots touching robots touching the mesh. The loss of 50 points resulted in the opposing alliance (399, 1197 & ??) gaining the championship. It was a great event with an exciting but controversial finish.

Back to the SoCal regional final: I wasn't sure whether Team 60 could have lifted their legs if they wanted to. It looked like Team 696 had them pinned. Certainly the correct strategy for Team 60 would be to leave the leg contacting the mesh to avoid giving 50 QPs to the red alliance. I'm guessing Team 60 had no intention of lifting their leg from the mesh...

Travis Covington
04-07-2003, 03:58 AM
Yes it was extremely similar to the scrrf finals.

And the teams were 399, 1197 & 968 strangely.

Again, an awesome match against 60. I do agree that team 60 might not have had any intention of raising their arms. Totally abolishing your own score when you have a secure first match win is a good strategy to ensure you advance with the higher QP's even if you forfit the win in the second match.

EIROBOTICS86
04-07-2003, 06:16 AM
one question on that how do you break the ramp?

Amanda M
04-07-2003, 07:20 PM
Okay, here goes:

Redhead Jokes: I'm not to sure exactly what type of motors we use to move the feet, but I do know that there are two : one for each side. The two feet are connected together in the middle and are controlled by one gear. (of course this is symmetrical on both sides.)

And our legs were killed by the end of the competition. I don't think that our driver tried to lift them, because he's pretty smart, but I don't doubt that we might not have been able to because of the damage.

Sanddrag: I want that horn! Make sure that you send it to me (Amanda) specifically! And we were in the market for a plaque to mount it on to-day, so it'll get there when we get it in!

DanielBCR: Hey! No offense taken here! We love you guys! even if we would hae lost, the matches were awesome, and would have been good whether we won or lost!

David Brinza: I don't think we did either... I was hoping not, but I'm just the team strategist, you know, I'm not in charge of actually playing the game!

There! I answered you all! I can't wait to see you guys at nats! look for the group of girls wearing duct tape clothing and you'll see me! haha! Stop by and ask to sign my pants!

--Amanda

Travis Covington
04-07-2003, 08:15 PM
they are globe motors using what look like worm gears

http://camo.flage.net/albums/albux06/P1010014.sized.jpg

Wetzel
04-09-2003, 10:33 PM
Anyway it was diced, the final results would have been the same
with 60, 1046, and 598 winning the round. They had enough QP from the first match that they won anyway you counted the robots.

The field wasn't damaged, the middle part wasnt bolted to anything. I wonder if FIRST will find some way to better secure that section on Einstein...


Wetzel
~~~~~~~~~
Very exciting!