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View Full Version : Chief Delphi Invitational -- Reborn?


Joe Johnson
06-30-2003, 05:35 PM
As many of you know, with the exception of last year, we have run the Chief Delphi Invitational every year since our second year in FIRST.

Last year, due to budget constraints and other issues, we had to cut back the competition.

We would very much like to host one this year.

But... ...we need your thoughts on an idea we have for simultaneously keeping our costs down and improving the experience for those who participate.

Here is the nub of the idea:

Rather than provide a kit of materials (as we historically have), we would utilize the Innovation First EDU kit

Any EDU kit item from the IFI website would be legal (with some limits -- for example, perhaps teams would be allowed only 8 motors).

Robots would be built AT THE COMPETITION (which would be at Pontiac Central on a Friday 6pm-9pm & Saturday 7am - 5pm).

We would open up an "IFI Store" onsite for teams to suppliment the EDU kits they have from the FIRST last season as desired.

Programming would be allowed but Operator Interface limited to 4 standard joystick (no custom wiring of switches or pots on OI side). Standard OI boards with 4 joysticks available for loan as needed (though hopefully most teams can bring their own).

General Agenda:
Fri 6pm - Game Kickoff
Fri 6-9pm - Brainstorming and Robot Build (private classroom provided -- access to field is allowed)
Sat 7-9am - Robot Build and Certification (Check Material & Size)
Sat 9-1 - Game Playing -- 1 on 1 matches, 4 fields, under 2.5 minute cycletime --> LOTS OF MATCHES
Sat 1-4 - Standard Double Elimation Tournament (a la basketball tournaments, or wrestling tourneys or many other tournaments).
Sat 4-5 - Awards and teardown

We think we can come up with a killer game.
We think the kit is makes this compressed build it and play timeframe possible.
We would save money mainly by not buying a kit (this may ultimately cost teams more though) and by not doing some of the multimedia stuff we typically do (for example we could used lower end Audio/Video/Computer stuff).
Teams could keep their robots (yeah!)
It would be a great time.

But...

...are teams interested in such an event?

We have not finalized costs yet but we are thinking that we may be able to do this for about $150 - $200 per team (that will be used up mostly on a few items that we will have to provide custom for the kit -- specifically batteries and chargers -- the IFI batteries and chargers are not up to running a competition, we would likely provided a charger and 2 batteries and a custom conversion pigtail to each team so that they could have enough juice to run a full competition).

So...

What do you say? Do we have 24 teams interested in such an event some time in November or December?

Reply to this message if your team is interested.

Joe J.

sanddrag
06-30-2003, 05:46 PM
Gosh darnet! Why the heck don't I live by Michigan? :mad: That sounds absolutely awesome!

Andrew Rudolph
06-30-2003, 06:26 PM
yeah michigan is faaar from florida, but it sounds like it will be awesome!

jonathan lall
06-30-2003, 09:20 PM
I cannot speak in an official capacity for my team without confering however I think we may be interested. I certainly am.

At the Canadian Regional kickoff, we had an EduBot competition, which was pretty fun for the most part. I'm sure this could be good too.

Armer
06-30-2003, 11:48 PM
Just like Jonathan, I can't say for sure and won't be able to until after IRI, but i think that team 1000 will be interested in going. We were going to go this year and I know that everyone on the team was totally bummed when it was cancelled.

I think that your game will be a big hit, especially having to build the robot during the competition. I will let you know after IRI if team 1000 is interested.

See y'all at IRI!

Chris Hibner
07-01-2003, 09:13 AM
Joe,

You would drastically improve the chances of our team attending if the CDI did NOT conflict with the Michigan/Ohio State game (every year that I could remember, the CDI was on the day of the Big Game). Therefore, I vote for a December date.

Matt Attallah
07-01-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Chris Hibner
Joe,

You would drastically improve the chances of our team attending if the CDI did NOT conflict with the Michigan/Ohio State game (every year that I could remember, the CDI was on the day of the Big Game). Therefore, I vote for a December date.

GO BLUE! :D

I want to go to CDI - but I'll be in Chicago by that time...:(

Anarkissed
07-01-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Matt Attallah
GO BLUE! :D

A BIG HEARTY AAAAAAAAAAA FOR U OF M!!!

Michigan rocks my socks.

/offtopic :D:D

Nate Smith
07-01-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Joe Johnson
by not doing some of the multimedia stuff we typically do (for example we could used lower end Audio/Video/Computer stuff).


I'm not writing this on the behalf of a team persay, but I can say that if you are interested in having me work with developing whatever you need computer-wise to make this happen, let me know...

Jeff Waegelin
07-02-2003, 11:51 PM
Joe, that idea is amazing! And we thought 6 weeks was a short time... I think it should be 6 hours of official build time, just so we can say we compress a full 6 weeks into 6 hours. Regardless of the minutae, though, it's a great idea. I'm sure 201 would be interested, as long as it doesn't interfere with OCCRA.

skrussel
07-06-2003, 11:07 AM
Hi Joe,

Intriguing.

Part I.
I remember the days of CDI when we arrived early Saturday morning, had 4 hours to design and construct our kits, and then competed all afternoon. Good stuff.

Part II.
I also remember being dismayed when CDI suddenly became a 5-6 week project. Don't get me wrong. The games were a blast, the whole idea was good. But for those of us with limited mentoring and engineering personnel, it was too much and too close to FIRST kickoff. Time - a big issue.
Personally, my team and I couldn't handle it because of the work required to run Sweet Repeat in late October each year.

Part III.
Okay. I like this idea a lot. This will encourage greater use of the EduBot, which can only be a good thing. Just think of the creativity we'd see with this wonderful little kit. This is perhaps one of the strongest rationales for bringing back the CDI, and it would dovetail beautifully with FIRST's objectives.

The EduBot seems to be under-utilized and underappreciated. I'm sure the folks at FIRST will applaud this venture.

This can only lead to better things. Practice in design, strategy, time management, flying-by-the-seat-of-their-pants, and teamwork; all in a very workable, very do-able microcosm. The use of EduBot is right. The timing is right. The price is right. Good stuff. I love this idea, Joe.

"If you build it, they will come."

Bill Beatty
07-06-2003, 11:35 AM
Joe,

We are always interested in a CDI competition. It is, without a doubt, the most bang for your robot buck anywhere.

Some random thoughts.

Friday afternoon forces out of towners to miss a day of school unless you are considering the Friday after Thanksgiving. (actually not a bad time-you could even start earlier in the day on Friday and have more matches on Saturday- could conflict with some folks other plans, but the world is full of decisions and priorities)

The Edubot kit is pretty limited-hopefully you would enhance it and also allow additional hardware-maybe bigger and more motors-victors-some additional structural aluminum.

We definitely would not like to see another long five to six week competition. It is just too much.

If I think of anything else I will pass them along. We don't know why your team takes on these things, but we love it.

Bill Beatty

Gadget470
07-06-2003, 01:40 PM
Perhaps, just as a suggestion, release the game and details before the competition and allow pre-competition brainstorming but not building. (By not building, I mean you cannot build your bot and show up expecting to use it, competition bots must be done on-site).

I don't know if I'll have time or if I'll even be with a team come fall, but I'll help however I can, if you want it.

Tytus Gerrish
07-06-2003, 01:45 PM
off season comps Need good announcers who do good comentary

Whats that? Tytus Can do that. Oh Lets get Tytus to do that. Alright ask him.....

Dan Green
07-07-2003, 04:23 PM
Joe,

I like the idea of doing the design & build on-site. It will make it easier for us to participate. The only issue I have is that we will need to take our students out of school to get there by 6:00 on Friday.

Glad to see that you're resurrecting CDI. Hopefully we will be able to attend.

Dan

Joe Johnson
07-07-2003, 05:29 PM
Okay, to those folks who are having difficulty taking kids out of school on Friday, what do you think of pushing the time to Saturday AM and to making a later day of it on Sat.

I am not committing to this but how about this agenda?

ALL ON SATURDAY:

5:30am Doors open
6:00am Intro/Welcome
6:10am Game Kickoff & Brainstorm & Fab Begins
11:00am Inspection Opens
12:00pm Seeding Begins
4:00pm Seeding Ends/Dinner Break
5:00pm Double Elimination Tourney Begins
8:00pm Awards & Wrap
9:00pm Lights out

This would be a LONG day, but it gets it all into one day.

What do you think?

Joe J.

Jeff Waegelin
07-07-2003, 10:42 PM
Well, it is really early (and really late), but it could help teams from farther away. I know the local teams would have no problems with a 6pm Friday start, but teams not in the area would benefit from the "all-Saturday" plan.

Bill Beatty
07-10-2003, 10:29 AM
Am I the only guy that thinks the Friday after Thanksgiving might be a good date?

meaubry
07-10-2003, 10:30 PM
Bill,
I like your idea and plan on lobbying hard for that date. I don't think that an extremely long single day event is condusive to a great time. I like the idea of the Friday after Thanksgiving - everyone has that day off.
Hope to see you there - and everyone else that can make the event.

dez250
07-11-2003, 12:41 AM
i just want to say as being interested in going but living in New York, travel time will be heavy the days after thanksgiving, i think it should be held on a saturday, but what if it went over to a sunday morning/afternoon also would that work?
~Mike

Bill Beatty
07-11-2003, 11:10 AM
My experience has been that travel on Friday and Saturday after Thanksgiving tends to be quite light. Travel on Wednesday and Sunday, forget it!

Joe Johnson
07-11-2003, 12:30 PM
I don't know about the Friday after Thanksgiving. I have mixed feelings. It may mean me coming back from relatives in Chicago before the rest of my family, but perhaps it could be worked out if there was interest from enough others.

I don't know about the logistics of getting judges to show up and getting the school open, etc, but again, if there is enough interest in this date, perhaps these hurdles could be overcome.

I guess we will have to think about it.

Joe J.

Jeff Waegelin
07-20-2003, 11:45 PM
I thought I heard an announcement about CDI down at IRI. Is the Friday/Saturday after Thanksgiving confirmed, now?

Brandon Martus
07-21-2003, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by Jeff Waegelin
I thought I heard an announcement about CDI down at IRI. Is the Friday/Saturday after Thanksgiving confirmed, now?

The flyers being handed out still say 'all dates tentative', or something like that. I'm pretty sure the date is still being worked out. The weekend after Thanksgiving is just one of the options being considered.

Jeff Waegelin
07-21-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Brandon Martus
The flyers being handed out still say 'all dates tentative', or something like that. I'm pretty sure the date is still being worked out. The weekend after Thanksgiving is just one of the options being considered.

Any idea when we'll know for sure? I hope it is after Thanksgiving... I might actually be able to come.

skrussel
07-27-2003, 09:43 PM
Hey Joe, While I see the argument in favor of it, holding the CDI on a holiday will put the hurt on a lot of people. Many kids are still expected to be with their families, and this could cause grief for many of the teachers' and engineers' families, too.

We need to keep the reins in on our FIRST-related activities enough to not disrupt or take away time that is normally devoted to our families. People who aren't involved in FIRST often find it difficult to understand this deep devotion to FIRST - I'm talking about our family members.

Please reconsider your plans to take away the Thanksgiving holiday.

Chris Hibner
07-28-2003, 09:33 AM
I'm not originally from these parts, and due to a crazy work schedule, FIRST, and other activities, Thanksgiving is one of the few times of the year I get to go home and see family and old friends (due to the long weekend). Therefore, I know I'll be away from the Detroit area that weekend. Then again, I may not be able to come regardless of the weekend, so perhaps I should keep quiet. On the other hand, I'm sure I'm not the only one in FIRST who has moved away from their home town and enjoys the yearly visit.

-Chris

Jeff Waegelin
07-28-2003, 02:20 PM
Personally, I love the idea of doing it on Thanksgiving weekend. It'll give college kids like me a chance to come home and help out. If it was on a different day, I might not be able to make it home for the weekend, but I know I'll be home (and free) for Thanksgiving weekend. The weekend before Thanksgiving was mentioned, and I know for a fact that I can't make it, since I'm going to be in the Michigan Marching Band, and that's the week of the Michigan-Ohio State football game. Personally, I just think Thanksgiving would work best because #1, lots of people will be home and available, and #2, it gives travel time for teams who are farther away. While some people may go on vacation, there are going to be problems with any date, unfortunately. I think Thanksgiving takes care of several big problems.

Dave Flowerday
07-29-2003, 10:16 AM
I agree with Susan and Chris on this one. Many mentors (and students) already sacrifice too much family time to participate in this program. It's hard enough for many adults to justify spending a regular weekend away at a competition, let alone a holiday weekend.

Originally posted by Jeff Waegelin
...since I'm going to be in the Michigan Marching Band...
Congratulations Jeff! That's quite an honor.

miketwalker
07-30-2003, 12:01 AM
Do you think we could do it individually... like get a few individuals without teams and get together and form a group? I'd love to do that... but the problem is, at least for me... I'd have to do it on Thanksgiving weekend since I'd have off... any other weekend it would just be too hard to fly in and then fly back. Thats my opinion though.