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JVN
07-23-2003, 12:28 PM
Ohh man!

Apparently FOX television is in trouble due to the "low-brow" content of their prime-time programming. In order to counter the effect of such shows as "Paradise Hotel" FOX has been ordered to include more educational programming in their prime-time lineup. (I think they were issued a quota of 1 hour per month).

So...
What does this mean?

FOX is in negotiations with FIRST to do an hour long Simpsons special in which Bart is forced onto a local FIRST team because of his prankster hijinx. I don't know many details but, I'm sure we'll be hearing more about it real soon...

Has anyone else heard more about this? Anyone got a neighbor who works for FOX or something?

Koko Ed
07-23-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by JVN
Ohh man!

Apparently FOX television is in trouble due to the "low-brow" content of their prime-time programming. In order to counter the effect of such shows as "Paradise Hotel" FOX has been ordered to include more educational programming in their prime-time lineup. (I think they were issued a quota of 1 hour per month).

So...
What does this mean?

FOX is in negotiations with FIRST to do an hour long Simpsons special in which Bart is forced onto a local FIRST team because of his prankster hijinx. I don't know many details but, I'm sure we'll be hearing more about it real soon...

Has anyone else heard more about this? Anyone got a neighbor who works for FOX or something?

I am suddenly having nightmarish vsions of FOX getting ahold of FIRST and trying to make it more "rating friendly" by either introducing more "demographically appealing "(i.e. model like) team members prone to back stabbing and making out between competitons with the worst performing teams being voted out.
Or to have FOX's overzealous sports department with their over dramatic sports commercials making competitions sound like a battle between good and evil with that melodramatic guy doing the voice over for the commercials " This Sunday in Cleveland, 64 teams battle for it all at the Buckeye regional to see who gets to move on to Atlanta and who is heading for home!"or having Simon Cowell as one of the judges at the competitions belittling teams for poor performing robots. "you call that a robot? I 've used can openers that we're more advanced!"
oy, I have a headache....

Dan Richardson
07-23-2003, 12:50 PM
there is no way.. this has gotta be a rumor, if this is true, I'm going to pass out and die on the spot..

It will be amazing street cred for FIRST tho, and a great promoting tool to attract more students into the FIRST program

I hope they incorporate speed holes

Originally posted by Koko Ed
I am suddenly having nightmarish vsions of FOX getting ahold of FIRST and trying to make it more "rating friendly" by either introducing more "demographically appealing "(i.e. model like) team members prone to back stabbing and making out between competitons with the worst performing teams being voted out.
Or to have FOX's overzealous sports department with their over dramatic sports commercials making competitions sound like a battle between good and evil with that melodramatic guy doing the voice over for the commercials " This Sunday in Cleveland, 64 teams battle for it all at the Buckeye regional to see who gets to move on to Atlanta and who is heading for home!"or having Simon Cowell as one of the judges at the competitions belittling teams for poor performing robots. "you call that a robot? I 've used can openers that we're more advanced!"
oy, I have a headache....


hehe that would be funny.. but I doubt that FIRST nor FOX would want to be that involved with each other, FIRST is cool but when people see bots, they'd wrather see them destroying each other, I don't think we will be on network television ne time soon.. other than the nasa tv

Although you never know what people will do .. so I might have to eat my words later

kristen
07-23-2003, 12:56 PM
How would they do this without including ACTUAL teams... I mean, the numbering would have to be different, otherwise people on the ACTUAL teams might be finding themselves animated :p

David Kelly
07-23-2003, 01:22 PM
man, i heard something about that at IRI. i thought they were just joking or something... maybe its true... dude tha'd be sweet! :yikes:

J Flex 188
07-23-2003, 01:26 PM
i think speed holes have become an integral part of every teams strategy = )..

still its amazing what the simpsons have done for popular culture.. one such example would be speed holes.. sometimes the zany and wacky lines end up having a peculiar effect on people and sometimes worm theyre way into speaking.. quite a nice effect.. but as Koko Ed said.. if this does happen, hopefully it wont turn into anything too crass.. -__-"

Madison
07-23-2003, 01:42 PM
Okay, so, imagine this --

A very Battlebots-esque competition is coming to the home of the Springfield Isotopes -- Duff Stadium.

Bart gets to work immediately, mayhem and hilarity ensues, and finally, he ends up with a machine of wanton death and destruction. Canyonero 2.0.

Lisa impresses the judges of the science fair and joins Springfield High's FIRST Team -- sponsored by the Leftorium.

At the end of the episode, it comes down to Lisa's finely engineered piece of machinery versus Bart's monster. Of course, Lisa's cunning engineering skills and strategy win over brute strength and mindless violence.

If The Simpsons are going to be involved, they've got to take cheap shots at *something*

seanwitte
07-23-2003, 02:40 PM
Bart and Lisa are in elementary school, so unless it was a FLL team it wouldn't be possible. Cool idea though.

It would be a better fit with Malcolm in the Middle. Malcolm joins to build robots, then Reece jumps in when he finds out they're going to Atlanta for the championships.

Madison
07-23-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by seanwitte
Bart and Lisa are in elementary school, so unless it was a FLL team it wouldn't be possible. Cool idea though.

It would be a better fit with Malcolm in the Middle. Malcolm joins to build robots, then Reece jumps in when he finds out they're going to Atlanta for the championships.

Bart and Lisa have been in elementary school for over 10 years. I don't think realism is a top priority of The Simpsons.

WakeZero
07-23-2003, 02:47 PM
I am not sure the Simpsons would be the best place to get the word of FIRST across... :yikes:

Before I say anything else however, I would love to see something in writing before I believe the rumor :rolleyes:

jon
07-23-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by M. Krass
Bart and Lisa have been in elementary school for over 10 years. I don't think realism is a top priority of The Simpsons.

Well, every episode doesn't span over the course of the time until the next episode, so they could just be picking up where they left off. :p

But yes, it's true it's not a believable show.

Also, how the hell would this be educational? On some level yes... but come on, it's The Simpsons.

Jeff Waegelin
07-23-2003, 04:23 PM
I think it would be interesting. If done right, it could be very good publicity for FIRST. Of course, John could just be leading us on... :p

Beth Sweet
07-23-2003, 05:58 PM
Well, it would definately be an interesting twist!!! And I'm sure that many of our team members would be interested. If anyone saw our pits this year, and stopped to watch the video, at "intermission" there is a scene of about half of the team sittin in the gm lunchroom watching the simpsons. It's rather commical. Seriously though, it would definately be a great idea.

Joel J
07-23-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by WakeZero
I am not sure the Simpsons would be the best place to get the word of FIRST across... :yikes:

Before I say anything else however, I would love to see something in writing before I believe the rumor :rolleyes: I am interested to know why you think the Simpsons isn't "the best place to get the word of FIRST across.." because, as of now, it doesn't sound like such a bad idea.

ZACH P.
07-23-2003, 06:07 PM
I dont think that Bart being forced into the team would be good, because it wouldn't be of his free will, and mioght make it seem like joining a FIRST team is a punishment. Also at the end, or whatever they could get the point across that FIRST is a real program, and then give contact information, or interview a team, etc. kinda like Arthur!

D.J. Fluck
07-23-2003, 06:08 PM
This almost has to be a joke....


If not, I think its a bad idea. In the last few years, the Simpsons have picked up some new writters and a new executive producer, Al Jean. That man is a total idiot and the show just isn't what it used to be. Slowly it is turning into a horrible kids cartoon. If you pay attention to the TV ratings, you would notice that there is a severe decrease in the viewing of the Simpsons. I used to plan my Sunday night around watching the Simpsons now I just don't. Ten million american homes stopped also. If first wants to get their name out, get it out on a TV show that isn't going to flop in the next year or so.

JVN
07-23-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by D.J. Fluck
This almost has to be a joke....


DJ, you know me, and you know I wouldn't fool around about something like this. This is genuine! I will let you guys know as soon as I hear something more substantial.

John

Ryan Dognaux
07-23-2003, 06:22 PM
Interesting.. very Interesting...

My guess is that if FIRST ever actually made it onto the Simpsons, it would be a kind of cameo appearance involving Dean Kamen... I seriously doubt an entire episode would be based around it.

But if it was... that would be so cool :D

Ian W.
07-23-2003, 06:36 PM
well, they did show the segway at least once or twice...

Joe Matt
07-23-2003, 06:42 PM
I'd rather meet DJ in person that see this happen, that's how much I don't want it to happen. ;)

generalbrando
07-23-2003, 07:19 PM
I would love to see Simpsons and FIRST meet. That's mostly because I'm a huge Simpsons fan as well as a FIRST fan (obviously).

Outside of my bias, I would argue that this could cause problems, but it could also bring a lot of attention to FIRST. The Simpsons are a major part of our popular culture after all.

And above all else, I want to remind everyone not to get their hopes up too much. This thread appears to be something that belongs in the rumor mill. I'll keep dreaming, because I'd love to see it happen.

And as a die hard Simpsons fan - I want to disagree with those who stopped watching :) I love the new episodes.

John JediMaster
07-23-2003, 07:32 PM
If this is for real I will be shocked and amazed that FOX did this. But again what team would they use? Knowing them they will most likey make up a new team, and use those guys who on the show would make pretty good FIRSTer's for most of the rest of the team.

But if it isn't that I will bet it's MOE.

D.J. Fluck
07-23-2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by JosephM
I'd rather meet DJ in person that see this happen, that's how much I don't want it to happen. ;)

Thats true, he doesnt want to meet me. He ran from me like a scared child when he saw me in Houston ;)

MattK
07-23-2003, 08:19 PM
Wow, I almost passed out when I saw this thread! THIS IS SO COOL!

Andy Grady
07-23-2003, 08:42 PM
Hahaha...I can see the Fox Specials now...

"Who wants to Marry an Engineer"

or

"When Big Jimmy the Wedgebot Attacks!"

Oh man...the possibilities are endless!!!

I for one would love to see Bart coached by one Andy Baker. Something tells me that Baker would make one awsome Simpsons character. Maybe he can play the blues with Bleeding Gums Murphy!!

Peace,
Andy Grady

Raven_Writer
07-23-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by jon
Well, every episode doesn't span over the course of the time until the next episode, so they could just be picking up where they left off. :p

But yes, it's true it's not a believable show.

Also, how the hell would this be educational? On some level yes... but come on, it's The Simpsons.
If a cartoon is believable, it's not really funny (take Doug for example, that basically was like real school and stuff, and I didn't really find any of it funny).

I agree with the rest who say "It's both good and bad." Yes, it'd give more publicity, but FOX could also make it out like Battle-Bots. So, I'm all for it either way. I hope it happens though, it'd give me something to look forward to next season (besides BANZAI! ;))

dez250
07-23-2003, 08:46 PM
i hope this isn't true for a few reasons, one being shows that fox airs like "Who wants to marry my FATHER" I am not kidding, it was promo'ed in Indiana while i was at IRI. Come on do we really want to see FIRST be put down on a level of animated BS... I have very mixed feelings for this and it would be a way to get the FIRST name to billions of people worldwide, but then again Fox is not up to par on my list of educational and appropriate channels for FIRST...
~Mike

P.S.~ Whats next..."Who wants to marry my ROBOT!"

Raven_Writer
07-23-2003, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by dez250
i hope this isn't true for a few reasons, one being shows that fox airs like "Who wants to marry my FATHER" I am not kidding, it was promo'ed in Indiana while i was at IRI. Come on do we really want to see FIRST be put down on a level of animated BS... I have very mixed feelings for this and it would be a way to get the FIRST name to billions of people worldwide, but then again Fox is not up to par on my list of educational and appropriate channels for FIRST...
~Mike
That show is stupid, yes.

I feel that if they want to get it acrossed, do a LEGO League on PBS (Detroit Only Station), or an actual educational station that everyone gets (it's possible)....maybe even *gasp* NICK */gasp*

JVN
07-23-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by dez250
I have very mixed feelings for this and it would be a way to get the FIRST name to billions of people worldwide, but then again Fox is not up to par on my list of educational and appropriate channels for FIRST...
~Mike

The Simpsons is one of the best shows on television.
Millions of people watch it every Sunday. Tens of thousands more watch each re-run.

The demographic of people that watch The Simpsons spans all age, race, and gender groups.

By being shown on the Simpsons, FIRST would immediately expose TONS of potential sposors, engineers, and students to what it is.

If a "positive show" is shown on a "negative network" does that detract from the show?

What networks are up to par?


I mean... almost everyone loves The Simpsons. It's obvious why FIRST would jump at such an opportunity. It's also clear that FIRST will provide an entertaining (semi-educational) program that FOX can air.

Personally, I can't wait to see this show. Imagine, the Shelbyville vs Springfield, the FIRST showdown of the century!

Veselin Kolev
07-23-2003, 09:45 PM
It would be interesting...
I'm all for it. I'm pretty sure that the representatives of FIRST would not let FOX make fun of us. But on the issue of which teams would be used, the Springfield team would be made up, but they would have to fight other teams. I forgot where the Simpsons was taped, but it would be teams from that area. And to make it fair, all real teams would be eliminated, leaving Springfield and Shelbyvill. Or something like that. Overall, I think it will happen, but not soon.

Raven_Writer
07-23-2003, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Veselin Kolev
It would be interesting...
I'm all for it. I'm pretty sure that the representatives of FIRST would not let FOX make fun of us. But on the issue of which teams would be used, the Springfield team would be made up, but they would have to fight other teams. I forgot where the Simpsons was taped, but it would be teams from that area. And to make it fair, all real teams would be eliminated, leaving Springfield and Shelbyvill. Or something like that. Overall, I think it will happen, but not soon.
I think it'll be a spoof of FIRST, and not actual FIRST....that way they won't have to pay for advertisment. But they'll still get the point acrossed w/ FIRST...they always find a way.

Melissa Nute
07-23-2003, 10:21 PM
I would like to see this actually happen...

But then again ...its only a rumor...

Kyle Fenton
07-23-2003, 11:29 PM
I think that someone is pulling your leg.

(Maybe FOX is considering, maybe it is not)

But there have been many failed attempts at porting FIRST into a movie or TV style format. Yes there have been several documentaries on FIRST, but really no solid appearance to the masses.

Remember that Disney show they said ABC was doing last year?

Well it didn't happen

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/18/technology/circuits/18BUIL.html?ex=1059105600&en=088c197bdd58daf3&ei=5070


First also hopes to keep expanding, with a goal of eventually reaching every high school in the nation. The plan involves a simpler kit that would enable first-year teams to build a competitive robot in less time, and a made-for-TV movie about the program that would be broadcast on ABC's "Wonderful World of Disney." The movie will star Noah Wylie of "E.R." as a teacher who supervises a First team at an inner-city school in California.


A movie or primetime TV show really makes someone aware.

For example, I am sure nobody knew what the K-19 was before Harrison Ford released a movie about it. Point is, that Dean Kamen should try to hire someone to do a good movie about it.

However, this is not a perfect world. Even though movies get millions, only few make profits now a days. This might be hard to fathom, but movies after all expenses are making surprisingly little profit.
Piracy from P2P doesn't help either.
Right now you see less and less movies, than you did when we had a boom market in late 90's. Producers usually review a potential idea with great scrutiny, before putting any money on it.

If a director gave an idea to a producer about a kid in FIRST, they would probably reject it, because the masses would probably don't want to see it.

Maybe an independent film can be made about FIRST? Who knows, "My Big Fat Greek Weeding" was a no name film at first, but did better than most feature films.

I really do hope that this happens, it would really help people understand who we are, and how important FIRST is. Plus I think it would help teams to possibly get more money, because it would enable a normal guy to a least get a feeling of what FIRST is.

Madison
07-24-2003, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by Kyle Fenton
Even though movies get millions, only few make profits now a days. This might be hard to fathom, but movies after all expenses are making surprisingly little profit.


Can you show me numbers?

I think you're wrong. While every movie doesn't make a profit, nevermind an enormous profit, most movies do manage to scrape by. To suggest otherwise is kinda ludicrous. Are they making everyone wealthy? Probably not so much.

Even if domestic box office grosses don't appear to be profitable, most movies go on to do six times that amount in worldwide ticket sales. Video releases, reissues, and other nifty marketing tricks (like Director's Cut DVDs) ensure that movies make money.

The movies are, after all, an industry. Even if one doesn't make money, it gets maid on the coattails of other box office successes. That said, though, you've got to have more movies that float than sink if anyone expects to make money.

A movie about FIRST, in any case, would probably be the most boring thing ever put to film. Television, movies, radio, or any other major media exposure is a bad thing for FIRST, across the board. What FIRST needs, and what we're doing a poor job with, is a real grassroots movement that reaches out to individuals and ropes them in. We need to be a presence in every city, if only for one weekend a year, so that people are exposed to what we do in the flesh.

We do not need a stylized presentation that glosses over the dramatic reality that we experience as participants of FIRST. When we get the word out on our own and when people are aware that FIRST participants surround them, then we can start exposing them to more stories of FIRST. Until then, keep the television and things out of it -- particularly those, as they represent interests that are not our own.

In any case, I'm interested in learning more about the majority of movies that don't seem to turn a profit.

Gope
07-24-2003, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by J Flex 188
i think speed holes have become an integral part of every teams strategy = )..


If you remember speed holes were also apart of Homer's strategy, in an episode where he becomes involved with the mafia they shoot holes into a car he is about to buy and the dealer says they are speed holes, later in the episode he is seen making speed holes in the hood of his car with some sort of tool, i think maybe the claw and of a hammer or a pick.

Kyle Fenton
07-24-2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by M. Krass
Can you show me numbers?

I think you're wrong. While every movie doesn't make a profit, nevermind an enormous profit, most movies do manage to scrape by. To suggest otherwise is kinda ludicrous. Are they making everyone wealthy? Probably not so much.

Even if domestic box office grosses don't appear to be profitable, most movies go on to do six times that amount in worldwide ticket sales. Video releases, reissues, and other nifty marketing tricks (like Director's Cut DVDs) ensure that movies make money.

The movies are, after all, an industry. Even if one doesn't make money, it gets maid on the coattails of other box office successes. That said, though, you've got to have more movies that float than sink if anyone expects to make money.

A movie about FIRST, in any case, would probably be the most boring thing ever put to film. Television, movies, radio, or any other major media exposure is a bad thing for FIRST, across the board. What FIRST needs, and what we're doing a poor job with, is a real grassroots movement that reaches out to individuals and ropes them in. We need to be a presence in every city, if only for one weekend a year, so that people are exposed to what we do in the flesh.

We do not need a stylized presentation that glosses over the dramatic reality that we experience as participants of FIRST. When we get the word out on our own and when people are aware that FIRST participants surround them, then we can start exposing them to more stories of FIRST. Until then, keep the television and things out of it -- particularly those, as they represent interests that are not our own.

In any case, I'm interested in learning more about the majority of movies that don't seem to turn a profit.

I really don't want to get into numbers, nor do I really care. Without getting too off-topic here, a majority of movies do all right, but some accumulate a loss. The big blockbusters like T3, Finding Nemo, Matrix, etc. usually has a high profit margin that the producers usually use that profit to cover the debt from other non-successful movies.

I disagree with you however on that a movie/tv/other media is bad for FIRST. I believe it is good for FIRST, and if it was watched by a good majority of people, it would expose them to what FIRST is. You have to remember that the average guy doesn't know much outside of what he sees on TV.
Everytime I do a demonstration of FIRST with my team, I always get some reference to Battlebots by a person who wants to know more information about it. Even when I try to explain it to a couple of strangers briefly, they still think it is some kind of Battlebots. Know why, because that is what they see on TV.

FIRST has the disadvantage of other sports in the fact is that the average person, that is not in FIRST, doesn't know what the heck FIRST is. I mean you can talk about it until you are blue in the face, and people would still wouldn't know what the heck you are talking about.

I also disagree with you that a feature film movie on FIRST would be boring. There have been many movies about sports/clubs in a one person narrative that have been successful. I am sure you can recall a few. Most directors usually know how to make even the most dry subject, worth while for people to see. And since we all experienced that FIRST is very exciting for us personally, it would probably wouldn't be that hard for a director to produce a decent movie.

Raven_Writer
07-24-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Kyle Fenton
...I disagree with you however on that a movie/tv/other media is bad for FIRST. I believe it is good for FIRST, and if it was watched by a good majority of people, it would expose them to what FIRST is. You have to remember that the average guy doesn't know much outside of what he sees on TV.
Everytime I do a demonstration of FIRST with my team, I always get some reference to Battlebots by a person who wants to know more information about it. Even when I try to explain it to a couple of strangers briefly, they still think it is some kind of Battlebots. Know why, because that is what they see on TV....I also disagree with you that a feature film movie on FIRST would be boring. There have been many movies about sports/clubs in a one person narrative that have been successful. I am sure you can recall a few. Most directors usually know how to make even the most dry subject, worth while for people to see. And since we all experienced that FIRST is very exciting for us personally, it would probably wouldn't be that hard for a director to produce a decent movie.
It's not really bad...but do a documentary kinda thing. I remember when I was our Houston hotel, I turned on some local channel or some sort, and watched an hour of 1999's Disney's Nats of FIRST (this was during the team party thing...I didn't go). Like I said before, Simpsons would just do a spoof of FIRST, and not really FIRST.

Having a movie on FIRST would be great...especially when a FIRST team is at a LEGO League comp. and that could inspire the kids to become more involved. If they did something on a movie-sort...do a clip-show (which isn't a "movie", but it's worth-while).

Katie Reynolds
07-24-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Jeff Waegelin
I think it would be interesting. If done right, it could be very good publicity for FIRST. Of course, John could just be leading us on... :p Jeff!! How could you even suggest such a thing?? John would *never* lead us on about anything! Especially something as important as this!! ;) :yikes:

Andy Baker turned Simpsons character? Now that would be cool!! :p

- Katie

Raven_Writer
07-24-2003, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Katie Reynolds
Jeff!! How could you even suggest such a thing?? John would *never* lead us on about anything! Especially something as important as this!! ;) :yikes:

Andy Baker turned Simpsons character? Now that would be cool!! :p

- Katie
If Andy Baker was turned into a Simpsons, I think they'll kinda make him out to be like Greg (creator of Simpsons) when they drew him a couple of times (just my opinion).

Cory
07-24-2003, 11:01 AM
To go a bit off topic here, throughout the season, team 254 was being followed by a camera crew that was making a documentary about them(or FIRST, I dont know). I heard somewhere that it was going to air on the discovery channel. Something like that, in my opinion, would be far better for FIRST, and the people viewing it. If FIRST is on the Simpsons, its going to be butchered. Sure, the name will get out to millions of people, but at what cost?

Cory

Joe Matt
07-24-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by D.J. Fluck
Thats true, he doesnt want to meet me. He ran from me like a scared child when he saw me in Houston ;)

Last time I remembered, it was a girl from my team who came up to you while I was talking to some Grundy people.

EddieMcD
07-24-2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Andy Grady
Hahaha...I can see the Fox Specials now...

"When Big Jimmy the Wedgebot Attacks!"

Oh man...the possibilities are endless!!!

Am I the only one that gets this?

Originally posted by Raven_Writer
That show is stupid, yes.

I feel that if they want to get it acrossed, do a LEGO League on PBS (Detroit Only Station), or an actual educational station that everyone gets (it's possible)....maybe even *gasp* NICK */gasp*

I wouldn't trust Nick to do a special on FIRST either. They did have Robot Wars for a few months, and this is only compounded by Sam from Rocket Power building his own puck-launching battlebot... I've been angry at Viacom ever since.

Madison
07-24-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Kyle Fenton
I really don't want to get into numbers, nor do I really care. Without getting too off-topic here, a majority of movies do all right, but some accumulate a loss. The big blockbusters like T3, Finding Nemo, Matrix, etc. usually has a high profit margin that the producers usually use that profit to cover the debt from other non-successful movies.


I'm sure that if you showed some numbers, you'd see that you're wrong. Domestic annual box office grosses have increased over $6B since 1982. When adjusted for inflation, newer movies aren't making more than older movies, so that simply means more people are going to the movies. If more people are going, and the annual grosses are up $6B, it's pretty safe draw a conclusion that suggests most movies make money. But, whatever.


I disagree with you however on that a movie/tv/other media is bad for FIRST. I believe it is good for FIRST, and if it was watched by a good majority of people, it would expose them to what FIRST is.


It would expose them to some media mogul's idea of what FIRST is, or what Colgate thinks FIRST is, or any other of the myriad advertisers who keep television free.

So, then, what do you do? You can make a documentary for HBO or something that significantly less people will see, but it can keep true to FIRST's mission.

There's a sacrifice that needs to be made for FIRST to achieve massive media coverage. It's a choice between staying true to our roots and ourselves, or listening to the input and demands of the people who're forking over their money to get us coverage. Surely, you've seen how the producers of other 'reality TV' shows manipulate the footage to create the most mouth-watering, interesting hour of television that they possibly can. Well, what makes you think that FIRST is immune? In the world of television and movies, nobody is immune to creative editing. Nobody.

So, then, that leads us down another path, doesn't it? If FIRST gets a special, or movie, or even a series, and if FIRST is willing to relinquish the control it has over its image to spread itself around the masses, are those people really seeing the same FIRST that we know? I'd argue that they're not. The changes that would take place in order to make a presentation about what we're doing interesting and palatable to the masses that we're pandering to would mean, in essence, that we're falsely advertising our product.

Then, don't you risk attracting people to the program who have no idea what it really is? I'm not sure that extra exposure would end up being a positive thing at all.


You have to remember that the average guy doesn't know much outside of what he sees on TV.


I think you're selling the average guy a little bit short.


Everytime I do a demonstration of FIRST with my team, I always get some reference to Battlebots by a person who wants to know more information about it. Even when I try to explain it to a couple of strangers briefly, they still think it is some kind of Battlebots. Know why, because that is what they see on TV.


Well, that's not at all because of television or Battlebots or anything like that. It's because you're talking to them. You may be demonstrating your robot, even, but it's entirely out of context. You're not showing these people what FIRST is, you're lecturing them about it.

That's precisely why I believe that the best, most reliable method of getting people interested in this program is by showing it to them at its glory. It means making our event in Atlanta something far more engaging and interesting and welcoming than just another large convention.

Do you think it's unusual for huge groups of people to hold events in the Georgia World Congress Center or the GeorgiaDome? Do you think the people of metro-Atlanta are completely desensitized to throngs of tourists and convention-goers wandering about their city? They're not going to show interest based solely on our presence. We need to welcome them and bring them into the folds of the FIRST experience by showing them, in person, what it is.

Maybe I'm weird about this, but I've never, ever, in my life, wandered into some convention that I wasn't supposed to be attending. Have you?

FIRST has a long, long way to go in making these events welcoming and interesting to the uninterested, uninitiated masses. Once they've accomplished roping in those folks who're *right there* they should focus on getting the attention of those people who're even more distant to the competition.


FIRST has the disadvantage of other sports in the fact is that the average person, that is not in FIRST, doesn't know what the heck FIRST is.

I also disagree with you that a feature film movie on FIRST would be boring. There have been many movies about sports/clubs in a one person narrative that have been successful[/B]

Movies about what, exactly? Football? Baseball? Hockey?

I can't recall a successful movie about the trials and tribulations of curling or pole-climbing, but my sports movie trivia is probably a bit lacking.

It seems that, given your first statement above, you'd agree that FIRST has more in common with curling than it does hockey, right? FIRST isn't as ubiquitous and well known as hockey, for certain, and a new game each year sure does make picking up on the rules a bit harder. Curling, on the other hand, has an awareness, but most people just don't know what it is. They don't know how it's played, how it's scored, what skill is required to be successful, or anything like that. Do you think a movie about curling could be successful at the box office?

I don't.

JVN
07-24-2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Katie Reynolds
Jeff!! How could you even suggest such a thing?? John would *never* lead us on about anything! Especially something as important as this!! ;) :yikes:

Andy Baker turned Simpsons character? Now that would be cool!! :p

- Katie

Now, I know it is shocking to many of you... but yes... this is a hoax. There has been no FOX-FIRST partnership, and there probably never will be.

I just thought it would be interesting to see if everyone else would believe it or not. ;) :D

Cory
07-24-2003, 03:09 PM
Good one John, ya really had us going there. :D

Raven_Writer
07-24-2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by JVN
Now, I know it is shocking to many of you... but yes... this is a hoax. There has been no FOX-FIRST partnership, and there probably never will be.

I just thought it would be interesting to see if everyone else would believe it or not. ;) :D
This whole thing did bring a very good topic though, how would FIRST go w/ advertising..

David Kelly
07-24-2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by JVN
Now, I know it is shocking to many of you... but yes... this is a hoax. There has been no FOX-FIRST partnership, and there probably never will be.

I just thought it would be interesting to see if everyone else would believe it or not. ;) :D



bahahahahahaha!!!!!! you alll believed it! When i first saw that john made the thread, i knew it was a haox. It's been a while since we have had a good rumor mill thread like this. Nice one John!! :p :ahh:

Madison
07-24-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by JVN
Now, I know it is shocking to many of you... but yes... this is a hoax. There has been no FOX-FIRST partnership, and there probably never will be.

I just thought it would be interesting to see if everyone else would believe it or not. ;) :D

You said you wanted to see if it'd go on to the weekend :p

J Flex 188
07-24-2003, 03:23 PM
lol yes thats what i meant....fat tony, legs and someone else were shooting at homer when he was making the speed holes and they kept hitting flanders.. hehe.. the car salesman.. you want my advice? i think you should buy this car..lmao


too bad it is a hoax >.<


Originally posted by Gope
If you remember speed holes were also apart of Homer's strategy, in an episode where he becomes involved with the mafia they shoot holes into a car he is about to buy and the dealer says they are speed holes, later in the episode he is seen making speed holes in the hood of his car with some sort of tool, i think maybe the claw and of a hammer or a pick.

Raven_Writer
07-24-2003, 03:31 PM
It's a shame this isn't real (IMHO). I think it'd be cool to have the rivalry still continue (hasn't been one for a while [or it has, I just haven't seen the new ones lately]).

Jeff Waegelin
07-24-2003, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by JVN
Now, I know it is shocking to many of you... but yes... this is a hoax. There has been no FOX-FIRST partnership, and there probably never will be.

I just thought it would be interesting to see if everyone else would believe it or not. ;) :D

I KNEW IT!!! Who said John was leading us on? Oh yes... me. :p

Ryan Dognaux
07-24-2003, 03:48 PM
Oh yes but as we speak producers at Fox have already created the next Simpsons episode from our discussion here...;)

JVN
07-24-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by M. Krass
You said you wanted to see if it'd go on to the weekend :p

Ehh...
I changed my mind... :D

ZACH P.
07-24-2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by M. Krass
A movie about FIRST, in any case, would probably be the most boring thing ever put to film.

I dont know about that, I saw a movie called the Straight Story, about a guy driving across a state or two on a riding mower.

Raven_Writer
07-24-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by M. Krass
A movie about FIRST, in any case, would probably be the most boring thing ever put to film.
I don't really understand how any FIRST'er can actually say that....it's like saying you don't want to be in FIRST, and you hope FIRST fails IMO.

Madison
07-24-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Raven_Writer
I don't really understand how any FIRST'er can actually say that....it's like saying you don't want to be in FIRST, and you hope FIRST fails IMO.

Being in FIRST should not mean having blind faith in the organization. It should not mean that all FIRST is good FIRST, either.

FIRST can do plenty to shoot itself in the foot and sacrifice the gains its made in the name of "media exposure" and "growth."

I want this organization to succeed. I really do. It's what the organization may become that I'm afraid of. Today's goals and tomorrow's goals won't necessarily be the same, and I don't know if I really agree with or support what seem to be tomorrow's goals.

I want to bring FIRST to as many people as we can, but I also want to make sure that they don't receive a watered down, illegitimate, ill-fitting facsimile of what FIRST really is. What are televisions and movie screens, really? They're really big, high-tech, colorful fax machines.

Raven_Writer
07-24-2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by M. Krass
...What are televisions and movie screens, really? They're really big, high-tech, colorful fax machines.
Ok, this is just a sarcastic remark here....what about andy griffin (or whatever it is), "I love Lucy", and others? They ain't made in color, nor high-tech...and I don't know what you mean by "big"

Back On Topic: Ok, cool. I didn't understand that statement til now.

Madison
07-24-2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Raven_Writer
Ok, this is just a sarcastic remark here....what about andy griffin (or whatever it is), "I love Lucy", and others? They ain't made in color, nor high-tech...and I don't know what you mean by "big"

It's not a sarcastic remark, it's a simple comparison.

Fax machines . . .the kind that transmit paper . . . you know what they do, right? They take a photograph of the high-quality original and they transmit that photograph over long distances. Then, they take the image and print it to paper. You can make out a lot of what the original looked like, but it's not quite the same.

When you film something, or take a picture of it, or do anything else to record an experience and transmit it to someone else, you've created a facsimile of that unique, original moment.

So, then, how is a television any different from a paper fax machine? It users different technology for the same result.

The point is, once you understand the comparison, that nothing you might see on television is ever quite as good as it is when you experience it for yourself. Nothing.

Where situations exist that don't allow us to be participants, media is a great tool. When it's entirely possible to involve people in the Real Thing, and I'm not talking about Coca-Cola here, there's absolutely no excuse in giving them a lesser quality experience.

Joe Matt
07-24-2003, 06:44 PM
We need to look beyond what would be cool for FIRST and start looking at what would be BEST for FIRST.

JVN
07-24-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by JosephM
We need to look beyond what would be cool for FIRST and start looking at what would be BEST for FIRST.

You feel you are qualified to tell us what is best for FIRST?

Jeez Joe... I'm willing to bet you don't know half the things that are going on with FIRST right now. Perhaps everyone is saying what they think would be best for FIRST.

Heck... I'll come right out and say it.
I think a Simpsons cameo would be GOOD for FIRST.

You disagree. Why are you right, and I am wrong?

Andy Grady
07-25-2003, 12:27 AM
I thought this was a great subject when it first came up, still do. But sometimes I read the posts and I really sense this "we are elite" feeling. What is it that makes FIRST too good for funny or even edgy network television? What kind of reputation is there for a show like the Simpsons to ruin? Sure, FIRST is a respectable organization, and some people do not want to see it become just another FOX special. But fact of the matter is, its not about reputation, its not about the image, its about inspiration. Getting the word out, is one of the main factors in trying to get teams, kids, people to inspire. I don't care if you have to put FIRST on Jerry Springer, if it gets the word out, its good press for our purpose. The more people of all types and groups are exposed to FIRST, the more people that get involved, and the more people that end up inspired. That is what this is all about. I feel the same way about Battlebots. Battlebots is the same as FIRST in many ways. It can be used as a tool to inspire. It is just in a different format. We are in a great program...but we are not better than everyone else. Lets hit the mainstream, lets get the name out. Only then can FIRST continue to grow.

Peace,
Andy Grady

Joe Matt
07-25-2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by JVN
You feel you are qualified to tell us what is best for FIRST?

Jeez Joe... I'm willing to bet you don't know half the things that are going on with FIRST right now. Perhaps everyone is saying what they think would be best for FIRST.

Heck... I'll come right out and say it.
I think a Simpsons cameo would be GOOD for FIRST.

You disagree. Why are you right, and I am wrong?

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, nor am I saying I know a lot (or do I....)

I'm simply saying we need to look beyond what's cool for FIRST to do, and look at what's best for FIRST. This also implies to me too since I thought it would be cool for FIRST to stay at Disney, but it was probably better for them to move out, even if Houston wasn't perfect.

My statement was also an overall general comment that we might want to think about when discussing things. Sure, it would be cool if FIRST held the team party at Cedar Point, but would it be best for FIRST?

Originally posted by Andy Grady
I thought this was a great subject when it first came up, still do. But sometimes I read the posts and I really sense this "we are elite" feeling. What is it that makes FIRST too good for funny or even edgy network television? What kind of reputation is there for a show like the Simpsons to ruin? Sure, FIRST is a respectable organization, and some people do not want to see it become just another FOX special. But fact of the matter is, its not about reputation, its not about the image, its about inspiration. Getting the word out, is one of the main factors in trying to get teams, kids, people to inspire. I don't care if you have to put FIRST on Jerry Springer, if it gets the word out, its good press for our purpose. The more people of all types and groups are exposed to FIRST, the more people that get involved, and the more people that end up inspired. That is what this is all about. I feel the same way about Battlebots. Battlebots is the same as FIRST in many ways. It can be used as a tool to inspire. It is just in a different format. We are in a great program...but we are not better than everyone else. Lets hit the mainstream, lets get the name out. Only then can FIRST continue to grow.

Peace,
Andy Grady

I think it goes back to the Battlebots thing. We finally have somewhat broken through that, but if FIRST is perceived as something different that it really is, that's a problem. Why? Because we will have to deal with it much like what we had to do with Battlebots.

It's not that Battlebots is bad, but it has presented us with some major problems, from Dean to us, that we had to break. FIRST dosn't have Carmen Electra like Battlebots does, etc.

Look at the Spelling Bee episode a while back about Lisa making it to the Spell-a-lympics. Sure, it was a rip off of how education is trying to be made as entertaining as sports, but even a small thing such as them trying to rig the game hurt them. If the same thing happened to Bart's team, FIRST would look a little tarnished, even if it's done jokingly.

Brandon Martus
07-25-2003, 09:37 AM
I've received way too many complaints about this thread. It (temporarily) dies now.