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View Full Version : DOUBLE QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! [01-30-02]


Ken Leung
01-30-2002, 04:54 PM
Hi all. Been extremely busy with the newsletter and lots of school work, nothing to mention the 1000 pages 3-in-1 Lord of the Ring, and Dune... Anyway, while I was talking to people online, I started wondering what kind of robot(s) will win-it-all this year. What I am talking about are win-it-all robots like Beatty 71 or Wildstang 111 last year, or Chief Delphi 47, Wildstang 111, or the 232/25 combination at 2000... Robots that did great without a good partner, and did super great with a good partner, and won-it-all when paired up with each other... With that in mind, here is the Question of the week...

Question 01/30/02 #1: Who do you think will dominate the game: a win-it-all ROBOT with any "good" partner, OR a pair that only win-it-all when they are with each other, OR three that only win-it-all in finals when they are with each other?

Question 01/30/02 #2: Do you think a win-it-all robot or alliance will have a sure win at regional/national championship, OR will it be the “happens to be a better match than others” alliance that will win the finals?

AdamT
01-30-2002, 10:52 PM
I think it will be up to the diversity of each robot. A lot of "do-it-all" robots will do very well, but not without the help of some other robot that complements them well. I think that the game gives a pair of robot that aren't all around, but are still great at one or two things, a good fighting chance!

One way or another, I can't wait to see the outcome!

Chris Hibner
01-31-2002, 09:16 AM
I think during qualifying, a do-it-all robot will come out ahead.

However, the eliminations is a different game. In the eliminations, I think a dominating robot with a halfway decent partner can win. Why? If the dominating robot can control all three goals, the partner only needs to be able to keep itself from getting dragged into the opponents endzone to secure the win.

Bill Enslen
01-31-2002, 02:31 PM
Chris is right about this being two different games. The best robot for the elimination matches will NOT be the highest ranking robot in the qualification round. They just have to hope and pray that they get picked. The top four robot teams will be wise to keep their eye on the robot that can consistently win every match!

David Kelly
01-31-2002, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Bill Enslen
Chris is right about this being two different games. The best robot for the elimination matches will NOT be the highest ranking robot in the qualification round. They just have to hope and pray that they get picked. The top four robot teams will be wise to keep their eye on the robot that can consistently win every match!

you don't necessarely have to win every match. we look at the teams that can do their thing and do it well every time.

AdamT
01-31-2002, 03:55 PM
But that's something that has been constant every year. It's always been teams who are constant, whether they are all-around bots or not.

Mike Rush
01-31-2002, 10:20 PM
Do you really thinkthere will be a robot who can control 3 goals in the finals? Remember, all of the teams in the finals will have at least 1 machine who can control 2 goals and I would be hard pressed to believe that there will be an alliance in the finals without a robot who can control 1 goal. The finals aaare going to be a hockey game with the middle goal as the puck. Face off, and expect to be checked!:cool:

AdamT
01-31-2002, 10:25 PM
I think that there will be an alliance that will be able to control 3 goals. I think the best alliances will be a great goal grabber *2 or 3 goals* and then a ball collector with a HUGE basket.

Kyle Hill
02-02-2002, 12:32 PM
I think the elims will be won by whoever can hold three goals themselves, and has some sort of system that allows them to drop to the floor or e-brake once that's done.

As for the drafts, there's going to be two kinds of successful alliances - the ones with one "I-can-do-everything myself" robots and two "We're-happy-to-be-here-go-team!" robots, as well as the high-seeded ones with three really-good-but-not-great robots. Since whoever wins the first match of the series has to change one of their robots for the second match, the alliances who will be most successful in closing out the series in two will be the ones who will lose the least when switching to their backup.

Therefore, an alliance who concentrates 99% of it's ability in one team won't be missing much by switching to a filler, while an alliance with an even distribution of ability can swap out any of the robots to come up with the best strategy for the second round.

A thought, though. This goes against everything in the name of gracious professionalism, I know, but...

What's to prevent an alliance captain from picking a robot that doesn't work, so they don't have to switch? (i.e. Team A picks Team B, who understands the signal and goes and rips out every piece of wiring from their bot so that it doesn't move?)

MI28Driver
02-03-2002, 08:17 PM
You have to remeber it wont be one bot domination, it will first off have to be a good team and alliance for both qualify and ellimantion. Secondly u have to have ur opposing team score something cuase if they dont ur are out of the points. So it should be a selection of who works best in there catigory and also who works well together.

Chris Hibner
02-04-2002, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by MI28Driver
You have to remeber it wont be one bot domination, it will first off have to be a good team and alliance for both qualify and ellimantion. Secondly u have to have ur opposing team score something cuase if they dont ur are out of the points. So it should be a selection of who works best in there catigory and also who works well together.

This year more than any year it can (and I predict WILL) be one robot domination in the finals.

Here's the reason. Let's assume that everyone's drivetrain has similar traction (that's not true but let's say it is). Let's now assume that a team can consistently win the race to the goals and can lift two of them. That gives this team 180(goal)+180(goal)+130(robot) = 490 lb of downforce for pushing. Now, if the opposing alliance wants to get in a pushing match with this robot, they only have 260 lb (130*2 for both robots) of downforce for pushing. Therefore, the one robot can win a pushing match against both robots on the other team.

This robot then needs to just be able to get the third goal and the match is over. Once the first two goals are captured, I don't think it will be that difficult to capture the third goal with the help from a decent partner.

Getting back to the assumption of everyone having the same inherent traction in the drive system. The difference in downforce between the robot picking up the goals and the opposing alliance is nearly 2:1. The robot getting the two goals can actually have terrible traction compared to the opposing alliance, but the difference in downforce will more than make up for it.

-Chris

SharkBite
02-04-2002, 12:01 PM
you can never count on an alliance ....... if your lucky they wont move at all and if you are unlucky they will hurt you..... so do it all machines are the way to go...... the winning combination will be two do it all robots........ one to score alliance points, one to balance opponent points