POLL: have small balls been abandoned?

[Solace]

here's a poll that's slightly different from all the other ones flying around.


from all the pictures that have been posted so far, it seems like very few teams have made herding the small balls a priority, opting instead for control of the large balls and hanging on the bar.

anyone can push small balls around. when I refer to making it a priority, i refer mostly to a robot around which the small balls play a significant role in bot design (i.e. holding the balls on the robot or having a specifically designed plow). specifically, i have yet to see many bots that hold the balls inside themselves.

so here we go. choose your bot configuration. and remember that if you are just pushing the balls with the front of your robot, it doesn't count.

[Madison]

Well, at this point, we've probably seen less than 10 complete robots. That's a small fraction of the teams who are competing this year, so I think you can expect that at least some small handful will be designed to adeptly handle the small balls.

[Solace]

true, but that at least this way i can figure out what the spread is.

I was mainly wondering how many teams are trying to do way too many things at the same time like us.

[Solace]

Brandon just fixed this poll so it is no longer public. you can now vote without showing your true colors to the world.

[ahecht]

We need another option:

Small balls are nice, but we'll let our alliance partner handle them.

[pras870]

assuming your alliance partner can handle small balls :)

[Solace]

and considering that you're alliance partner is nonfunctional about 30% of the time, that basically means that you've sacrificed the small balls.

[Ken Loyd]

2 X 0 = 0

Small balls count!

Ken Loyd
Team 64

[Adam Y.]

Go ball hopper! Go ball hooper! Now if only the balls can get out then we would be set.

[Solace]

Go ball hopper! Go ball hooper! Now if only the balls can get out then we would be set.

for everybody who is tackling both the big ball and the bar while holding small balls internally, how are you getting everything to fit with the small balls needing so much space? how many balls are you planning on getting? ours can get five reliably, and 6 on a wing and a prayer.

[ngreen]

for everybody who is tackling both the big ball and the bar while holding small balls internally, how are you getting everything to fit with the small balls needing so much space? how many balls are you planning on getting? ours can get five reliably, and 6 on a wing and a prayer.

It's possible. My team's problem was we built the robot first and now we are just starting to design it. I've got the plan if we've got the room. 15x15x15 5 to 6 high, that's a lot of room. I wish they were 9" balls.

[Levaman]

Few teams are actually ready to go to competition.10-12 maybe? Team 616 is still working out a few bugs and we'll be ready to test auton mode. Other than that, not much more we can do. We have the human player part good. The driver still is learning the controls but that's not unusual.

Everyone just needs to keep working.

[KenWittlief]

small balls are the deciding factor in this years game - put all of the ones from your side of the field in a capped goal and thats 240 points

if anything, hanging is a waste of time - while you are busy hanging yourself we will be taking the 2X ball off your goals and putting them on ours :c)

[Dorsk65]

I just have to say, our team hasn't really come up with a "solid" plan yet. As far as I have seen, our manipulator plan changes every day at the very least. But none of that really matters, as long as we have something that moves, which hopefully resembles a robot. And if it doesn't move, well thats when we get out the duct tape and the WD-40.

[Solace]

small balls are the deciding factor in this years game - put all of the ones from your side of the field in a capped goal and thats 240 points

if anything, hanging is a waste of time - while you are busy hanging yourself we will be taking the 2X ball off your goals and putting them on ours :c)

unless, of course, one is capable of attaching to the bar and winching up in a very very short period of time...

[greencactus3]

unless, of course, one is capable of attaching to the bar and winching up in a very very short period of time...
who said everyone was winching up? maybe some teams will 'hop' up :D

[ngreen]

Or what about latching on and blocking them from getting your ball and pulling yourself up in the last seconds.

[Solace]

You get the idea

[westfalia]

if you can really do a good job collecting a good enough amount of those small balls, I think you have the bar set high against the other team- it's all about whose got more, and where. imagine a round where all you've got are big ball grabbers, and less-than-adequate plowers... then how many balls have you got?

We plan on holding 5 balls at a time, and have a fast drivetrain to accomodate it. (and we'll probably hang, too)

[ahecht]

unless, of course, one is capable of attaching to the bar and winching up in a very very short period of time...
Or capable of protecting their goals while hanging...

[westfalia]

i can't wait to see a robot that protects and/or moves the balls while hanging- it will look AWESOME

[Bruce C.]

It's possible. My team's problem was we built the robot first and now we are just starting to design it. ....

Ha! I thought we were the only ones doing that!

Looking forward to seeing you guys again at LoneStar. (A twofer?)

Bruce C.
Team 647 Cyberwolves

[Andy Grady]

Big balls, small balls, hanging, protecting...this is the beauty of this years game. FIRST has done so well in the game design this year, that no matter what type of robot you build, you can do well. Remember, for every strategy, there is a counter strategy. To make matters even more interesting, for every counter strategy, there is another counter strategy. In the end, this game is comming down to one major thing...who is the most intelegent, and who is the most prepared. Get ready for the most complex game of chess ever played on a FIRST playingfield!

Once again, way to go FIRST!

-Good Luck
Andy Grady

[ShadowKnight]

team strategies are entirely dependant on alliances and their partners...like mentioned before, there is no one strategy that trumps the others. The problem is that it just is very nearly impossible to design and build a robot that can effectively hang, and protect your goals at the same time. That means that by hanging, you will be sacrificing the time you spend hanging and possibly giving the other team a way to advance on your lead. It's all about alliance partners this year...what the other can do...

[Ben.V.293]

i can't wait to see a robot that protects and/or moves the balls while hanging- it will look AWESOME

the wait wont be long if ur gonna be at the New Jersey or Chessapeake regionals.

[Matt Adams]

The problem is that it just is very nearly impossible to design and build a robot that can effectively hang, and protect your goals at the same time.
Bingo.

If I had to venture right now... I'd say that the final seconds won't be a frenzy of hanging, but rather a frenzy to cap / decap and protect your capped goal. If you have more than 10 balls in your goal, you MUST defend the cap if it's threatened, and you MUST try to decap if your opponent can hang.

I think it's pretty cut and dry...

plink plink go the pennies,

Matt

[KenWittlief]

if you try to protect your cap ball while you are hanging, then you cant be touching it at the end of the match, or you are not 'completely' supported by the bar only

I expect the judges to rule if you are touching the 2X ball in a goal, then you get no points for hanging.

[Jason Rudolph]

if you try to protect your cap ball while you are hanging, then you cant be touching it at the end of the match, or you are not 'completely' supported by the bar only

I expect the judges to rule if you are touching the 2X ball in a goal, then you get no points for hanging.


Not only that, but if you are touching the large ball on top of your goal, then it is not considered to be capping the goal, so you'd not get the multiplier, and not get the points for hanging.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

we can fit 20+ balls in our hopper and control the 2x ball.. w0-0t w0-0t

[Solace]

we can fit 20+ balls in our hopper and control the 2x ball.. w0-0t w0-0t
post me a picture and I'll believe you.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

i'll have one for you on tuesday (next meeting)

[Tom Bottiglieri]

but here's a ghetto mock-up of what we kinda want to do

[OneAngryDaisy]

good luck getting the balls out of there in an orderly fashion.. and oh, did i forget to mention you gotta get them in there first?


None of the robots revealed thusfar have even attempted to contain balls.. I see 2 reasons for this..

1. Those suckers are big and unven. And after a few rounds they'll be donuts.

2. Most of us only have 1 real game ball to test with. You pop it, you're screwed.

[Solace]

we have a hopper that works great. we're just not going to post pictures until we get the rest of the robot completed as well.

[Jeff Waegelin]

good luck getting the balls out of there in an orderly fashion.. and oh, did i forget to mention you gotta get them in there first?


None of the robots revealed thusfar have even attempted to contain balls.. I see 2 reasons for this..

1. Those suckers are big and unven. And after a few rounds they'll be donuts.

2. Most of us only have 1 real game ball to test with. You pop it, you're screwed.

Is it really necessary to shoot down an idea just because you don't agree with it? Maybe the teams that have ball-holding mechanisms just aren't done yet, or don't want to reveal their designs for doing so. Have you considered that third reason?

[Tom Bottiglieri]

as i said.. that is a ghetto mock up. But, the finished version is gauranteed to catch all the balls 99.9% of the time. And our human player's average practice trial is 49 out of 50

[KevinB]

None of the robots revealed thusfar have even attempted to contain balls..
At our meetings, the word "hopper" is regarded as an obscenity. Mention it and you'll be thrown out. I have only seen one good hopper bot -- it was in 2002 and it sucked up soccer balls like mad. I don't remember what team it was, but it kicked butt in its first couple matches at nationals .... then everyone figured out all you have to do is tip it over when it becomes so top heavy because of all the balls its carrying. :D

[OneAngryDaisy]

Is it really necessary to shoot down an idea just because you don't agree with it? Maybe the teams that have ball-holding mechanisms just aren't done yet, or don't want to reveal their designs for doing so. Have you considered that third reason?

hmm... you might not have noticed my teammate's post, but we ourselves are planning to have a ball mechanism- I did not intend to shoot it down, I was just pointing out what I believe to be the 2 main reasons why the majority of robots so far don't have a ball mechanism..


sorry if i came off a bit harsh, that was my view and my view only, please dont discriminate against 341 because of what I said

[Denman]

well our robot was deisind to have the big and little balls , but we had too much wieght and had to take our lifting arm off for the big ball
lol

[D.J. Fluck]

Wow talk about pulling up a dead thread a bit late....

At our meetings, the word "hopper" is regarded as an obscenity. Mention it and you'll be thrown out. I have only seen one good hopper bot -- it was in 2002 and it sucked up soccer balls like mad. I don't remember what team it was, but it kicked butt in its first couple matches at nationals .... then everyone figured out all you have to do is tip it over when it becomes so top heavy because of all the balls its carrying. :D


For the record after seeing the 571 machine in action a couple times this year, that "hopper" was pretty great

and it was team 95 in 2002

[Cory]

Wow talk about pulling up a dead thread a bit late....




For the record after seeing the 571 machine in action a couple times this year, that "hopper" was pretty great

and it was team 95 in 2002


Team 95 was great, but as I recall they didnt make it to nationals in 2002.

[Denman]

it just came up as similar topics to another one, i didn't look at the date lol
it looked interesting anyway

[Joe J.]

We had two wings that opened and closed via pneumatic cylinders they weren't fancy just 1/2 inch PVC over I think it was 1/4 inch metal rods. We also had a ball kicker on the front of Loki. That consisted of two 8 inch wheel chair wheels belt driven from the seat motor. That seemed to work well after we built in a new transmission at Great Lakes.

[RudimentaryPeni]

what does first do with all the poped balls, i hope they recycle for the environment

[Billfred]

Well, on Archimedes the popped balls went to whoever claimed them first.

I currently have two--one was signed by Dean and Dave, the other is sitting at my feet here in my dorm. I wear it as a hat now and then.