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John Prather
03-17-2002, 05:26 PM
I'm not sure, but is going for all three goals really the best stategy for the Finals??????

Would having two really good ball bots with one of them being able to grab 1 goal, control it, defend it, and both bots filling it up with balls be better?

If you got more than 20 balls, you would already have more points than you ever could just being able to grab and control 3 goals. With 2 really good ball bots this wouldn't be a problem.

Joel J
03-17-2002, 06:22 PM
You are correct. If you get one goal, 21+ balls, and a robot in the end zone, you most likely won.

Jeff Waegelin
03-17-2002, 07:57 PM
Well, I do not know if grabbing three goals is the best strategy, but it definitely worked for us. We won six out of seven elimination matches in Cleveland with our wonderful partners, 469 and 859, and didn't have too much trouble achieving that. We had some quick and easy matches, and we had some close matches that came down to a final last minute push, but overall the strategy was a great success.

I think that the strategy Joel and John are discussing would work, but the key element is holding that goal (as it is for any strategy). If you lose your 1 goal, you lose. It would be very easy to block a ball team off and prevent them from scoring their points, or just push them back. If you control all 3 goals, however, you are guaranteed a win. Without goals, victory is impossible.

That's not to say balls (and ball teams) are not important. In qualifying, they are VERY important, and in a close match, a few balls can be the deciding factor. My point, however, is that in elimination rounds, goal control is more important, and balls play second fiddle to goals. Of our winning alliance in Cleveland, all three teams were goals-only. While balls could have helped, they are not a necessity to win matches. Without goals, balls are nothing.

meaubry
03-17-2002, 09:20 PM
Jeff,
You make a good point, but the major element is time and alot of "if's"! By the way, your alliance was awesome and you all did a great job, congrats.
To ward off the "tug o war" double goal handlers, the Single goal grabbers must be faster to the goal and also more manueverable with it once it has it - two minutes is an eternity when a relentless slower machine is uninhibited in its progress. I suppose the partners could block it and just give up on trying to keep the other team from taking 2 - you can't loose 3 unless you are pretty sure that you can block it into your scoring zone.
The key to keeping out of trouble in the first place is to beat the other team to the goals, latch and turn (rotate away from the other goal) at the same time - so the other team doesn't get the goal practically brought to them. At least you have to make them work to catch it -
I can't wait to see 2 very fast double goal grabbers smash head long into the goals at the same time and the same opening - now that may lead to some interesting results!

Jeff Waegelin
03-17-2002, 09:38 PM
Thank you very much, meaubry. I really enjoyed playing against your team. The excitement on the field for those matches and all the other elims was amazing.

The key to pulling such a strategy off is to have two machines that can dash to the goals, get all three, and then be able to push to get the goals in scoring position. Ideally, teams with multi-speed transmissions would do this best, but if played right, that is not mandatory. More important is to be able is to outrun the other team for the first two goals and out push for the third. If a team is a strong enough pusher (like us) they can force a goal (and robot) to go anywhere they want.

Kevin Ray
03-17-2002, 09:54 PM
I agree that the tug of war is the best strategy, well... that's what I thought especially rounds the first weekend. After seeing several of the teams ( 173 especially) in the SBPLI regional I changed my mind. They and phenominal speed and hit the goal in seconds, locked on and proceeded to suck up every ball on their side. The have tenacious traction and "OWN" what ever goal they take. I think that what makes them successful is that they can manhandle the goal quickly, thus enabling them to avoil a tug of war. However, if that is unavoidable, I only saw them lose one of those and that was to a team who had a 1 ft/ sec. tractor.

So... is tug of war in the finals the way to go in the finals, most likely--unless there is a team like 173.

Kevin Ray
03-17-2002, 09:56 PM
Wow, I think that I should re-read what I type before I hit "send":( :(

Natchez
03-17-2002, 11:48 PM
Has anyone around the country tried or considered pulling/pushing the bi-goal or tri-goal "system" into their own end zone during elimination rounds? Granted, there are a million what-ifs (such as # balls in the goals, can the opponent get to their end zone while holding onto the goals, etc.) but it seems like a solid strategy.

Imagine, you find yourself in the finals against the most phenomenal 3 goal robot known to man teamed with a bulldozer 'bot. The crowd awed as this duo went undefeated in the quarters and semis by taking hold of the 3 goals and crawling them into the scoring zone while the best pusher 'bots were unsuccessful at trying to push them back up Mount Everest. Fortunately and unfortunately, you have the sparse crowd madly cheering for you because you are the biggest underdog that the world has ever known. But then the well-mentored future rocket scientist comes up with the strategy that the entire team begins to laugh at but then realizes that it just may be crazy enough to work. Her idea is to sneak around the tri-goal system and push the entire system into your end zone while blocking the sneaky little mini-me-bots (of course, named Minnie-me and Mickey-me) of the 3 goal dominators. You put the plan into action and the crowd starts to get up to leave with about 30 seconds left to go when a tremendous gasp that sucks the Epcot Ball from its pedestal and knocks all of the refs off their feet. The mumbling begins. "They're going to push everything into their own end zone!" "Wow, the bulldozer 'bot can't help!" "They'll win anyway because they have two balls in the goal and they have their Mickey-bot & Minnie-bot ... let's go to Epcot ... this thing's over." "Wait, they're blocking Mickey & Minnie." The buzzer sounds and you win the first match 30 to 2." Within 30 seconds, the buzz has made it back to the pits; everyone is running out the pit tents and into the stands to see if Goliath will fall. You look up in the stands to find that the previously sparse crowd of Disney clean-up personnel is now a standing room only stadium. As you catch your breath, you realize that your stomach that you thought was at full butterfly-capacity 4 minutes ago has just found a way to triple that number. What do you do now?

PMGRACER
03-18-2002, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by meaubry

-
I can't wait to see 2 very fast double goal grabbers smash head long into the goals at the same time and the same opening - now that may lead to some interesting results!
The final mathes at the Buckeye were splended to watch! The Feds and Guerillas were awsome to watch in action! We only grabbed the goals once in high gear, which was at about the same speed the Guerillas could get to the goals. I think a match between 27 and 469 would be a lot of fun; once we get the bugs out of our shifter program! I love the way 469 gets on the goals, moves them to the end zone, spins the chasis 90 degrees and hangs out! Awesome! Nice machine, congratulations!!:D

Paul Copioli
03-19-2002, 08:16 AM
As Natchez has eluded to ... 3 Goals does not guarantee a win!!

4 robots in your zone, 3 goals in their zone ... human player has to be 10 for 10 in order for the 3 goal team to win.

I know there are a lot of ifs, but the point is that 3 goals does not guarantee a win.


-Paul

Jason Haaga
03-19-2002, 10:57 AM
Want to know the best strategy for the finals?

Wait till New Haven, you'll all see :D

Jeff Rodriguez
03-19-2002, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Kevin Ray
I agree that the tug of war is the best strategy, well... that's what I thought especially rounds the first weekend. After seeing several of the teams ( 173 especially) in the SBPLI regional I changed my mind. They and phenominal speed and hit the goal in seconds, locked on and proceeded to suck up every ball on their side. The have tenacious traction and "OWN" what ever goal they take. I think that what makes them successful is that they can manhandle the goal quickly, thus enabling them to avoil a tug of war. However, if that is unavoidable, I only saw them lose one of those and that was to a team who had a 1 ft/ sec. tractor.

So... is tug of war in the finals the way to go in the finals, most likely--unless there is a team like 173.

YES!! thank you, you're the first person i've seen that recognizes our ball & goal handing ability. Thank you so much. Everyone listen to this guy he knows what hes talking about

Steve Prairie
03-19-2002, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Ogre


YES!! thank you, you're the first person i've seen that recognizes our ball & goal handing ability. Thank you so much. Everyone listen to this guy he knows what hes talking about

Ogre, they don't hafta listen to Kevin or us, they just hafta be prepared for when we fly by them with a basket full of balls and a goal in the finals. ;) Who needs "best of 2 out of 3" when you can go back to back all the way?

Hopefully we can get some good video footage up soon...

Joel J
03-19-2002, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Steve Prairie


Ogre, they don't hafta listen to Kevin or us, they just hafta be prepared for when we fly by them with a basket full of balls and a goal in the finals. ;) Who needs "best of 2 out of 3" when you can go back to back all the way?

Hopefully we can get some good video footage up soon... I hate this, y'all are scaring me..be cool.

Jeff Rodriguez
03-20-2002, 09:30 AM
come on!! you know how you drive, just go with it. its much more fun.