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View Full Version : YMTC: Redabot Splits the Field


Natchez
01-23-2005, 04:10 PM
You Make The Call (YMTC) is a series of situations where you are the official and make the call. Please reference specific rules when applicable. The results of YMTC are not official and are for educational purposes only.

Redabot, in autonomous mode, drives directly "inside" the center goal and extends two PVC arms horizontally at "clothes-line height" into the other two mid-field goals. Redabot remains there for the entire match. When bluabots tried to go "through" the arms, the arms would react against the side goals and the bluabots would start to tip. At the end of the match, no goals had been moved and there was not even a scratch on the goals from the PVC arms.

Based on the 2005 Robot Rules (http://www2.usfirst.org/2005comp/Section_4-The_Game.pdf), YOU MAKE THE CALL!

jgannon
01-23-2005, 04:13 PM
Not particularly GP, but legal. I expect someone will try this strategy, but I don't know how they'll support those arms. Also, it will hurt their partners as much as it does their opponents, so it probably won't be a very effective strategy.

Tom Bottiglieri
01-23-2005, 04:15 PM
Thats a pretty stupid strategy, because you have just allowed the other team to cap as many goals as they want, undefended.

But, its legal.

Max Lobovsky
01-23-2005, 04:28 PM
Well it would be pretty clear the robot intentionally uses the side goals as support for the arms and this would be illegal. (There is a rule barring attaching or using the goals as support)

Billfred
01-23-2005, 04:28 PM
I agree--legal but stupid.

phrontist
01-23-2005, 04:28 PM
Well the arms could retract...

Kevin Sevcik
01-23-2005, 04:29 PM
It'd be a pretty strong strategy if you went in front of the center goal and did it, actually. It'd make it harder for the other team to cap the center row. But at any rate, it sounds legal to me.

Jeff Rodriguez
01-23-2005, 07:30 PM
Can someone help me here?

In 2003, team #68 Truck Town had large wings that extended across the ramp and down the sides. Their wings reached over the edge of the ramp and down the sides. The end of the wings were around the support bars. Here's a picture:
http://firstrobotics.net/03gallery/images/0068-1_jpg.jpg

You can see that the wings don't actually grab the bars, but use them as leverage if they were pushed, similar to the wings described in this thread.

If I remember correctly, the wings were ruled illegal and team 68 was not allowed to use the end sections of them.

To me, this should be the same call for the example given.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken with team 68 in 2003.

devicenull
01-23-2005, 07:33 PM
Legal, but it doesn't make sense. By being in the center goal, you probably aren't blocking the other team from capping the center row, your just blocking them from capping your far row. You've just enabled them to cap all 6 goals available to them with no one to stop them. Legal, IMO, but it wouldn't make sense to block there

Joe Ross
01-23-2005, 07:51 PM
You can see that the wings don't actually grab the bars, but use them as leverage if they were pushed, similar to the wings described in this thread.

If I remember correctly, the wings were ruled illegal and team 68 was not allowed to use the end sections of them.

To me, this should be the same call for the example given.

Yes that was the case with 68 in 2003. However, the rules were written differently then. You couldn't intentionally react with the bars. FIRST's argument was that the end sections were worthless if they didn't react with the bar.

This year, you are allowed to react with the goals, as long as damage does not occur to them. Since Lucien specifically said that no damage occurs, then they are legal.

I do not believe that it is reasonable to assume that a robot can actually do this without damaging the goals, but that wasn't the question

Projectchon
01-23-2005, 08:39 PM
I don't think FIRST would like this to happen

beside the arm could break easily

MasonMM
01-23-2005, 09:18 PM
Legal. If theres no damage to the goals then it doesn't violate and penalties in that aspect. And becuse you arn't constantly putting any forces on opposing robots you wouldn't violate any of the agressive defense penalties.

663.keith
01-23-2005, 09:29 PM
this would be legal. there was another team during stack attack that used "wings" made out of compression foam. These wings were determined leagal, and I think they won an award for them.

This strategy could be helpful, but it just seems too impractical to work