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View Full Version : Where do we get these motors!?!?


robahimian
03-27-2002, 11:58 PM
I saw these motors that look pretty cool on team 230's robot pictures. This is one picture from the Delphi Gallery, there a couple more. Our team was real tight for motors this year, what kinds are these? Where can we get some, and how many can we use? Is it from small parts or should it have come in our kit?? The motor I'm referring to is in the bottom right hand corner of the picture, it's black right next to the front gripper, and sort of hanging out of the robot!
Thanks!

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/pics/bin/1016992916107_0723_img.jpg

Ken Leung
03-28-2002, 03:31 AM
The motors on the robot (the right part of robot) are call Van Door motors from the 2001 kit of parts, and the years before.

According to rules, they are supposed to be illegal for this year's competition because they are not supplied in this year's kit of parts.

I sure hope this picture is a robot from last year, because if the inspector know half of what they are supposed to, they will disqualify that device in a second.

If there are users in here from 230, please clarify if this robot is for this year's competition. If so, please be prepare take those motors off.

Wetzel
03-28-2002, 04:40 AM
I think this is this years bot, for I spy the optical sensors.
The only black motor I see looks like a Chalupa...
I looked and was unable to find the other pictures of 230 to help clairify.

<edit>
Ok, looking at that now, it does apper that it could be a van door motor...
Custom gearbox on a Chalupa? Van Door?
/me withdraws motor guesses
230, what is it?

</edit>

foursixnine
03-28-2002, 06:29 AM
Those are definitly the van doors, no doubt about it. It has green and red wire not yellow and red, the shape is different than the chipua, the label is different, the van door label is visible in another pic, and the gearbox is an exact match to that of the van door. The other pics are in the 2002 robot gallery, so I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's this year's robot. I also went to their site and they've already competed in 2 regionals.

Matt Reiland
03-28-2002, 04:22 PM
Man good catch guys , looks like three goal catchers which would be this years for sure. I am sure that they were overlooked at the competition at check in if it was anything like ours, I am wondering if they have a shell or something over it otherwise someone surely must have seen it at a competition.

foursixnine
03-28-2002, 06:42 PM
Not neccisarily, if they didnt do too well I'm sure no one would have noticed especially since the chipua looks alot like it. I know I personally didn't inspect the robots who did poorly I only went around and checked out the ones that were doin good or had unique features.

I don't think the inspectors know much about what they are doing, they really just read the list. Based on our inspection we probably could have put a lawn mower engine on our robot and the inspector wouldn't have had any idea it was illegal. We probably could have convinced her it was the battery. I hope they have people who are a little more familiar with FIRST robots inspecting at Nationals.

Elgin Clock
03-28-2002, 07:16 PM
Maybe it's a non-functional item used for ballast?!?!?!?!

We did that last year with 2' O.D. by 6" long steel rods! (I think that's what they were)

foursixnine
03-28-2002, 10:30 PM
We did that last year with 2' O.D. by 6" long steel rods!

I hope you meant to say 2" O.D.

Elgin Clock
03-29-2002, 11:00 AM
No No No, you read the units callout wrong, I meant 2 minutes and 0 radians!

LOL no I did mean 2"!

Keith Chester
03-29-2002, 06:39 PM
Yea, I did notice the inspectors were pretty oblivious to what was going on in the pits. I've seen teams add plenty of weight to their robot after weigh in. (They bolted a few gears on that did nothing but stayed under parts to add weight)
I also noticed they took very little interest in the robot.
Since I'm a freshman member of FIRST, I have to ask, is it usually like this and does it improve in the nationals?

Nate Smith
03-29-2002, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Replic
Yea, I did notice the inspectors were pretty oblivious to what was going on in the pits. I've seen teams add plenty of weight to their robot after weigh in. (They bolted a few gears on that did nothing but stayed under parts to add weight)
I also noticed they took very little interest in the robot.
Since I'm a freshman member of FIRST, I have to ask, is it usually like this and does it improve in the nationals?

To take a look at this, I'll use my experience from Great Lakes as in example:

There were 3 volunteers assigned as inspectors, who were trained by a FIRST staff member on Thursday morning as to what to look for. All of these volunteers had some other task to perform after inspections were completed, as otherwise they would have been done by 9am Friday. Most teams were not ready for inspection until well after lunch, which left the afternoon for the inspectors to look at all 62 teams. Once these teams passed inspection, the inspectors' job was done unless they were requested to do otherwise. Nowhere in the rules does it state that the inspectors are required to police the pits looking for changes being made. FIRST relies on the gracious professionalism of the teams to ensure that illegal changes are not being made. If you are unsure of another team's actions, you reserve the right to request that FIRST re-examines that team's robot.

Adam Y.
03-29-2002, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by foursixnine
Not neccisarily, if they didnt do too well I'm sure no one would have noticed especially since the chipua looks alot like it. I know I personally didn't inspect the robots who did poorly I only went around and checked out the ones that were doin good or had unique features.

Unfournately they made it to the semi finals if I remeber correctly at Long Island.

foursixnine
03-29-2002, 09:46 PM
Well, at least they won't get away with it at nationals whether it be unintentional or not. I can understand maybe not having the light visible from all four sides, using tape as a connector (it's attaching a spring for the gripper), or having hazardous wiring, but I would have to draw the line at using a motor not from the kit. I mean 230 isn't a rookie team how could they have not known using the van door was illegal? I don't think anyone from 230 has responded yet.

foursixnine
03-29-2002, 09:48 PM
That is kind of strange if they made it to semi's and nobody noticed they had a van door sticking out the side of their robot, also I'm sure it wasn'nt intentional if they posted pics of it all over Chiefdelphi.

Keith Chester
03-30-2002, 09:34 AM
out of curiosity, since we're talking bout whether or not van doors a legal, are MagMotors legal?

srawls
03-30-2002, 09:38 AM
we're not talking about whether or not van door motors are legal ... they aren't, and the rules clearly say it. If a motor weren't in the 2002 kit of parts, and you can't get it from small parts, then you can't use it. So, unless someone corrects me, MagMotors are illegal too.

Stephen

Adam Y.
03-30-2002, 10:57 AM
As long as they are in the kit they are legal but I dont think Magmotors are in the kit.

Matt Reiland
03-30-2002, 07:31 PM
Ohhh if Magmotors were only legal, a few Thor speed controllers and I would bet no carpet left anywhere by finals check out these specs

C40 (4") S28 (3")
3.8 Horsepower 4.5 Horsepower
3840 oz-in Torque 3720 oz-in Torque
84% Efficiency 83% Efficiency
24 Volts 24 Volts
4000 RPM 4900 RPM
11.9 Pounds 6.9 Pounds
Built-in Capacitors Built-in Capacitors
Ferrite Magnets Neodymium Magnets

They will be on my Battlebot for sure

Keith Chester
03-30-2002, 09:34 PM
Yea, that would be sweet. Expensive motors though, over 300 a pop.
Also, they're AC motors- require much more power than any motor in FIRST. But they are the motor of choice for battlebots I hear.

Keith Chester
03-30-2002, 09:35 PM
one more thing- you're building a battlebot? can you contact me? im not sure if ill enter mine, but for fun my dad and i are building a bot of our own. i need help so far, so anything you could provide would be great.

Adam Y.
03-31-2002, 03:09 PM
Actually magmotors are DC current. Trying to convert dc into ac current is a bad bad idea. There rare earth magnets which makes them super expensive.
http://www.robotbooks.com/ Look at his link for more info on magmotors designed for battlebots. :cool:

stevek
05-03-2002, 04:32 PM
Since no one form 230 saw this post and replied, I will!! The Van door motor was on the initial bill of parts and we assumed it would be shipped with all the stuff that was "on it's way". We found out at LI regionals that it was not legal so we never used the arm (touchdown pole). We then redesigned the teather to not need that motor.

Think of it like this, you have a tether that has a posible entanglement issue, so you dont deploy it. You aren't d-q's because the offence never happens.

The sad part is that it wasnt the judges that informed us, it was other teams. And we thank you for that. We'd never intentionally break a rule. We spent tons of time working on a stiff tether to keep away from the "potential" of entanglement (as Woodie described in the Kickoff) only to be surprised at what passed inspection at the regionals. So sorry for any confussion. Good spot, I can bearly make it out in the picture and I know what I'm looking at.

PS: We only made it to the Quarters in LI. it was New England we were in the Semi's. (with a revised tether). Congrats to all who competed this year, it was challenging and exciting.

Steve