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View Full Version : YMTC: Redateam declines and then accepts


Natchez
03-05-2005, 12:10 PM
You Make The Call (YMTC) is a series of situations where you are the official and make the call. Please reference specific rules when applicable. The results of YMTC are not official and are for educational purposes only.

The Magnolia Regional qualifying rounds are over and Redateam is ranked 8th. The 2nd seeded alliance captain from Greenateam selects Redateam and Redateam declined their invitation to become part of their alliance. Then, the 5th seeded alliance captain from Bluateam selects Redateam and Redateam "graciously accepts" the invitation with a smile on their face. Redateam never becomes an alliance captain and goes on to win the Magnolia Regional with Bluateam.

Based on the 2005 Tournament Rules (http://www2.usfirst.org/2005comp/Section_8-The_Tournament_rev_A.pdf), YOU MAKE THE CALL!

Billfred
03-05-2005, 12:13 PM
Straight up shouldn't happen under 8.4.1. Pick some new alliances, and go from there.

Elgin Clock
03-05-2005, 12:18 PM
Hmm.. I wonder where this scenario came from.. :rolleyes:

And I fully agree with Billfred.

Winged Wonder
03-05-2005, 12:19 PM
I agree 100% with Billfred. Those rules are clearly stated in the manual--those rules aren't even new. New alliances should be picked. sure it takes more time, but it is a direct violation of the rules, and you just can not leave this the way it is.

In descending order, each Alliance Captain will invite to join them, a team ranked below them in the standings, which has not already accepted or declined an invitation, to join an Alliance. The invited Team Representative will step forward and either accept or decline the invitation. If the team accepts, it is moved into that Alliance. If the team declines, it is not eligible to be picked again and the Alliance Captain extends another invitation to a different team.

jpsaul7usa
03-05-2005, 12:53 PM
Too bad the rules don't say what to do when 8.4.1 is violated. That's my guess why Peachtree is going ahead with the elims. 'Computer glitch'? So will this precedent for not having to follow selection rules mean they won't be enforced for the rest of the season? What's the reason for having a rule if it's not enforced?

Elgin Clock
03-05-2005, 01:00 PM
What's the reason for having a rule if it's not enforced?
And if you were like me at your age, you would be saying.. meh.. Rules are made to be broken.

Winged Wonder
03-05-2005, 01:08 PM
And if you were like me at your age, you would be saying.. meh.. Rules are made to be broken.

yes thats true.. but only in some cases. Robotics should be taken seriously--it helps prepare students like you were to become respectable adults with moral values and who do things by the book. i understand some rules can be bent at times, but this should not be one of those cases. :( that rule is there for a reason.

Al Skierkiewicz
03-05-2005, 01:19 PM
Too bad the rules don't say what to do when 8.4.1 is violated.
There is no need for a response to this situation. The rule just states that it cannot happen. A high ranked team cannot decline one alliance and accept another because the they cannot be approached after the first decline. They will be treated as if they are already part of an alliance and not eleigible for an invitation. This rule prevents (as well as it can) the formation of alliances off the field (a situation that did arise at one time) to the exclusion of other teams. A team who finishes at the top of qualifying should have the choice of all teams present.

Wetzel
03-05-2005, 01:47 PM
Too bad the rules don't say what to do when 8.4.1 is violated. That's my guess why Peachtree is going ahead with the elims. 'Computer glitch'? So will this precedent for not having to follow selection rules mean they won't be enforced for the rest of the season? What's the reason for having a rule if it's not enforced?

Please do not call it simply a 'computer glitch'. I've been a scorekeeper at VCU, and it is not just a glitch, there are more issues than just a glitch. It has been a major massive headache, and can not be understated.

Wetzel

JRHaddock
03-06-2005, 09:25 PM
As someone who was close to this situation at the Peachtree Regional I can offer some details from the perspective of Team 1263.

It is true, our team hoped to form an alliance with Team 34. Team 34 has been around a while, but have changed their school association this year. It is their student's first year of FIRST Robotics.

Team 1263 is a second year team and put forth an exceptional effort with the resources available to go to Peachtree and prove our worth as serious competitors. Because of the rules determining participation in the championship, our only avenue was to win a major award. Part of our incentive was the fact that Peachtree was the only regional we could attend due to money. As we spent all the money we had and could borrow, it was one shot for us. If money is not an issue with your team, you really cannot appreciate how much of an obstacle it is when you don't have enough.

Having said that, our objective was to be fair and square. We wanted our integrity to be above question. We believed we had a great team and a great machine. We wanted nothing to detract from whatever we may have accomplished.

Through the flurry of activity, the adrenaline rush, the mounds of information churning through the head of our Team Captian, he requested an alliance partner who had already declined. I suppose the Team 34 Alliance representative was also caught up in the spirit of the moment.

I am puzzled that with all the people on the field at the time with responsibility and knowledge, this was not recognized right away. I wish it had been caught right then. I believe the officials must have been aware of this problem before the matches began.

I agree this should have been corrected before the finals began.

Stephen Kowski
03-06-2005, 09:35 PM
Please do not call it simply a 'computer glitch'. I've been a scorekeeper at VCU, and it is not just a glitch, there are more issues than just a glitch. It has been a major massive headache, and can not be understated.

To follow up, mistakes happen guys....no one is perfect and I think you all are taking it a bit too hard....when a mistake has occured at ANY level it will be corrected, but to overreact in this manner seems ridiculous to me. It is the first week of regionals and remember there have been very radical changes to these alliance selection rules this year...

did this oversite cause a dramatic change in the outcome in peachtree?? no....if there has been a mistake it will be taken care of....

Al Skierkiewicz
03-07-2005, 07:31 AM
As someone who was close to this situation at the Peachtree Regional I can offer some details from the perspective of Team....

Since this is a real situation, it is best to not second quess the decisions of the judges present. I hope it turned out well for all involved.

Beth Sweet
03-07-2005, 07:38 AM
Please do not call it simply a 'computer glitch'. I've been a scorekeeper at VCU, and it is not just a glitch, there are more issues than just a glitch. It has been a major massive headache, and can not be understated.

Wetzel

A bit off topic but thanks for volunteering and doing a great job at VCU. Mistakes happen and there's no reason for people to get on your case about it. Way to support the FIRST program! :D