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Natchez
03-08-2005, 12:16 AM
You Make The Call (YMTC) is a series of situations where you are the official and make the call. Please reference specific rules when applicable. The results of YMTC are not official and are for educational purposes only.

Redabot, without being in the loading zone, dislodges a red tetra from the auto-loader that falls onto the playing field. The ref immediately spikes a flag into the ground indicating a 10-point penalty on Redabot. Redabot's alliance partner, Redabilly, picks up the previously-dislodged-red-tetra and scores the tetra on the center goal. The buzzer sounds and the center goal has the red tetra on top of a blue tetra with no robots touching the tetras.

Based on the 2005 Game Rules (http://www2.usfirst.org/2005comp/Section_4-The_Game_rev_A.pdf), YOU MAKE THE CALL!

Rick TYler
03-08-2005, 12:29 AM
[I]Redabot, without being in the loading zone, dislodges a red tetra from the auto-loader that falls onto the playing field. The ref immediately spikes a flag into the ground indicating a 10-point penalty on Redabot. Redabot's alliance partner, Redabilly, picks up the previously-dislodged-red-tetra and scores the tetra on the center goal. The buzzer sounds and the center goal has the red tetra on top of a blue tetra with no robots touching the tetras.(...)YOU MAKE THE CALL!

I just know I'm getting sucked into something here...

The rules say that a robot must be in the LOADING ZONE to load a new tetra. There is a 10-point penalty for touching a tetra from outside the loading zone. The rules are silent on the "legal" status of that tetra. In your scenario, since the rules don't say that the tetra is now "illegal," I'm going to say that the tetra scores as usual.

Rombus
03-08-2005, 12:42 AM
IMHO:
Ten point pentality has already been assessed, And the tetra is on the field, Since Redabot is not attempting to score with that tetra, Tetra is considered in play, and able to score with.

This comes down to the "Intention" of rule G14. They are making it so a long arm cant pick up a tetra then score it from halfway across the field. Since this was inadvertant, and not happening consistantly i think this is how a judge would look at it.

Cory
03-08-2005, 01:08 AM
The way we looked at it at Sacramento was that if a team illegally introduced a tetra, we followed it until that team either scored it or dropped it. If it was scored we remembered to not count it at the end of the match. If it was dropped by the offending team, and left alone for a sufficient amount of time, it was considered legal, as we could not be expected to do nothing but follow tetras around the field.

My answer to this would be it depends on how long it sat on the ground before the alliance partner picked it up and scored it.

Wetzel
03-08-2005, 08:27 AM
Field attendants will place TETRAS on the Tetra Loading Stations on the side of the field opposite the HUMAN PLAYERS (i.e. the “automated” LOADING ZONE). A ROBOT must enter the corresponding LOADING ZONE to retrieve the TETRA from the Loading Station, and enter it into play. If a robot touches a Loading Station tetra before it is in the LOADING ZONE, the offending alliance will be assessed a 10-point penalty and the tetra will not be scored. The HUMAN PLAYER does not have to leave the pressure pad sensor during this operation. When the TETRA is removed from the Loading Station and the ROBOT has left the LOADING ZONE, the field attendant will place a new TETRA on the Loading Station at the first safe opportunity. Robots may not intentionally interfere with field attendant’s efforts to place TETRAS on the Loading Stations.

I bolded the applicable part. The tetra will not be scored.

Wetzel

Stu Bloom
03-08-2005, 08:41 AM
from <G14>
If a robot touches a Loading Station tetra before it is in the LOADING ZONE, the offending alliance will be assessed a 10-point penalty and the tetra will not be scored. I bolded the applicable part. The tetra will not be scored.

Wetzel Correct ! And although the rules don't address this specific circumstance, I think it would be appropriate for a referee to remove the tetra from the field at the earliest safe opportunity.

OOPS ... wait a minute ...
The rule says the tetra "will not be scored" (1 or 3 points). But does that also include the determination of who "owns" the goal (which was the original question)??

Very interesting dilemma indeed ... I don't believe the rules cover this scenario

Wetzel
03-08-2005, 08:46 AM
Correct ! And although the rules don't address this specific circumstance, I think it would be appropriate for a referee to remove the tetra from the field at the earliest safe opportunity.

OOPS ... wait a minute ...
The rule says the tetra "will not be scored" (1 or 3 points). But does that also include the determination of who "owns" the goal ??

Very interesting dilema indeed ...

To own three is to score. If that tetra is involved in owning, it is involved in scoring.

While I think this is the easier thing to do, the QA #1529 says otherwise. It is my opinion that this addresses this situation.
Q: If a tetra falls off of the automatic loader either onto the playing field or outside the playing field, will it be re-positioned back onto the loader?
A: Onto the field: the tetra will be left there. Outside the field: it will be returned to the loader as soon as it is safe to do so.

Wetzel

Rombus
03-10-2005, 11:56 PM
Just a quick update

As of Team Update 15, They removed the section that says "The Tetra will not be scored'

So Red owns the goal, no matter if Redabot or any of his partners scored with the tetra

slickguy2007
03-12-2005, 11:39 PM
For anybody who has been to the competitions... was it a reoccuring problem? Did a lot of teams knock into the automatic loading station? Were their a lot of penalties for teams not being in the loading zone when going for a tetra on the auto loader? Also, if u attempt to pick up a tetra from the auto loader during autonomous and accidently knock into the auto loader would you get a penalty? Thanxs!!


GO 1403!!!