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Mike
08-21-2006, 12:49 AM
Hey all,

I'm getting my license within the next 3 months, and am buying a car within the next 4-5 months. What are the teenage drivers around here paying for insurance? I got a quote on esurance.com of around $425 a month... which seems to be pretty ridiculous. Their survey seemed a bit rudimentary as well, didn't ask about my grades or anything.

I guesstimated my payments at around $200-$250 a month. I'm looking at getting a B5 (96-2001) Audi A4 2.8 Quattro. 16 year old male, honor roll GPA, certificate from certified driving school. I'd be added onto my family's plan (with parents and 19 year old sister).

Does this seem to be reasonable?
Is there anything I can do to bring down the costs?

-Mike

Wetzel
08-21-2006, 12:58 AM
Want cheaper insurance? Don't get a luxury sports car.

Wetzel

Adam Richards
08-21-2006, 01:08 AM
Insurance companies generally hate under 25 year olds from what it seems.. our insurance costs are always going to be through the roof, since we're most likely to get involved in an accident.

Mike
08-21-2006, 01:12 AM
Don't get a luxury sports car.

Wetzel

But they're soooooo nice :(

Does $425/mo sound like the norm for that kind of car? I mean I knew it was going to be high... but in two years my insurance will cost more than the car itself!

sanddrag
08-21-2006, 01:22 AM
It's funny. It may still be true that teenage drivers are the most prone to getting in wrecks, but most of the idiots I encounter are not teenagers at all. During the school year, I drive 75 miles per day, five or six days per week, and most of the "close calls" I've had and poor driver's I've seen were not teenagers. I say let them in cheap, and if they don't prove they can avoid hitting things then raise the rate.

Mike
08-21-2006, 01:28 AM
It's funny. It may still be true that teenage drivers are the most prone to getting in wrecks, but most of the idiots I encounter are not teenagers at all. During the school year, I drive 75 miles per day, five or six days per week, and most of the "close calls" I've had and poor driver's I've seen were not teenagers. I say let them in cheap, and if they don't prove they can avoid hitting things then raise the rate.

Exactly. Don't penalize those of us who actually value our safety (and cars) just because of the idiots out there that decide its a good idea to get drunk and go smash up their daddys Lexus.

Cory
08-21-2006, 03:02 AM
What are the teenage drivers around here paying for insurance? I got a quote on esurance.com of around $425 a month...


Well I just turned 20, but I've been paying ~$100 a month for quite some time. It helps greatly that I drive a 1993 Ford Explorer, and I'm on my parents plan, however.

Jay H 237
08-21-2006, 06:03 AM
Mike, paying $5100 a year in insurance is extremely high, I know people with DWI's paying less than that! :eek:

Now, you said you'll get added onto your familys plan, but are they going through esurance.com also? You have to get the quote from your familys insurance carrier, when you went to esurance they probably expected you to be the only one. See what discounts your familys carrier will offer, good student, multi-vehicle household, ect. Also, even if you family is happy with the carrier and isn't going to switch, it doesn't hurt to get quotes from others.


Like Wetzel said, the vehicle makes a big difference also. My first car was a used 4cyl Dodge Omni......your basic entry level car. My insurance (Nationwide) wasn't even half of your quote. For ha-ha's try redoing the esurance quote but use a 2001 Chevy Cavalier instead and see what it is.

Jeremiah Johnson
08-21-2006, 08:44 AM
I have my own insurance plan. I pay $125.28 each month. Now, if I were on my parents' plan, then I would only pay about $88/month. I drive a '91 Chevy S10 though. Insurance is pretty rediculous and I would suggest getting a cheaper car because chances are, it won't last long enough to pay rediculous insurance prices.

KenWittlief
08-21-2006, 09:23 AM
...most of the "close calls" I've had and poor driver's I've seen were not teenagers...

close calls only count with hand gernades, Horseshoes and Nukes.

statistically teenagers do the most damage. Its not a matter of driving like an idiot, its a matter of experience.

After you have been driving for several years you develope subconcious reflexes that kick in, where a new driver is more prone to make a mistake and hit something.

One way to lower your rates: dont have collision on your car. Get an older car that is paid for, then if you wreck it your insurace does not have to pay for your mistake.

Andy A.
08-21-2006, 09:32 AM
Get something from the late 80's or early 90's with the smallest engine you can find. It won't last long, but it might last long enough to get you out of you're teens. Once you are in you're twenties, rates start to go down (as I am just finding out).

Audi anything for a 16 year old is going to be expensive. Pretty much anything a 16 year old owns will be expensive to insure. A junk car helps though, much more then good grades (discounts for grades and such are a very small drop in a very large bucket, so don't count on that).

Remember- Insurance companies don't care if you say that you are a safe driver. It's all statistical, and the statistics are decidedly not on you're side. You are a new driver and they will assume the worse.

Consider a scooter?

-Andy A.

Wetzel
08-21-2006, 11:03 AM
One way to lower your rates: dont have collision on your car. Get an older car that is paid for, then if you wreck it your insurace does not have to pay for your mistake.

I don't understand this. Why would the insurance not pay me if the car is wrecked? I would certainly want them to cover the damage to my car and whatever I wrecked into, regardless of if I or the bank owns it.

Wetzel

Eugenia Gabrielov
08-21-2006, 11:40 AM
Mike -

I know it seems unfair to you that the insurance you'll have to pay is so high. However, it won't change the situation for your company. I started on an older used car, and insurance was ok. Remember that you're going to be driving with a lot of crazy teenagers, and even if you are an extremely safe driver, others won't be, and as somebody said above that car may not survive your teens.

Are you paying for this yourself? Or are your parents paying? Remember that you have college to pay for ahead, and even regardless of scholarships there can be big costs for that as tuition rates skyrocket. I hate to be a killjoy, but the decision is really where you want your money - a sports car now, or an even better sports car later :).

- Geni

Cynette
08-21-2006, 12:05 PM
I don't understand this. Why would the insurance not pay me if the car is wrecked? I would certainly want them to cover the damage to my car and whatever I wrecked into, regardless of if I or the bank owns it.

Wetzel
If you have an older car with a blue book value of let's say $700 (aka my son's '95 Saab) and your insurance deductible is $500 and you total the car, all they will give you is at the most $200. That's $17/ month for a year. So if your collision part of the car insuance is greater than $17/month, and it usually is, drop the collision and put that money in the bank for the fund to replace your car when you need to. You keep the liability on the car, that protects the people part of the accident and the other car.

And to answer the original question...We have a 17 year-old with a 2005 Masda RX-8, (her choice, she earned it) she is on our insurance and its about $1100 for six months (She also has a job, and pays for half of the cost). I know she is cheaper than if she was a teenage boy, but other than that, I can't imagine having to pay much more than that. So I think the $450/month estimate is way off base. And I think NY has one of the highest rates in the country.

Wayne C.
08-21-2006, 12:10 PM
It's funny. It may still be true that teenage drivers are the most prone to getting in wrecks, but most of the idiots I encounter are not teenagers at all. During the school year, I drive 75 miles per day, five or six days per week, and most of the "close calls" I've had and poor driver's I've seen were not teenagers. I say let them in cheap, and if they don't prove they can avoid hitting things then raise the rate.


Ya but teenagers drive the fastest, because they haven't gotten a lot of tickets. By the way I got 5 speeding tickets in my first 2 years of driving so now I don't speed anymore.

JaneYoung
08-21-2006, 12:17 PM
I think you should drive the car you want if that is the agreement in your family. Research your rates, looking for things like GPA advantages, etc. Do comparisons, the car you want and the older car models -you'll probably see price variations.

When you get your car, enjoy it and drive smart. Congratulations on this upcoming milestone.
Jane

KenWittlief
08-21-2006, 12:35 PM
I don't understand this. Why would the insurance not pay me if the car is wrecked? I would certainly want them to cover the damage to my car and whatever I wrecked into, regardless of if I or the bank owns it.

Wetzel

Two types of insurance, comprehensive and collision, insure your car against things not involving other drivers: if you wreck your own car, if your car is stolen, if you set it on fire while messing with a 1000 W amp in the trunk... then C&C insurance gives you the blue book value of the car when its totaled.

If you dont have "C&C" coverage and someone else damages your car, then they have to pay for the damages (covered by their liability insurance).

If you dont have C&C and you wreck your own car, or you leave your keys in it and it is stolen, or you screw up repair work and the engine catches fire... then you have to pay for your own mistakes.

I think this is the better path for new drivers, older (less expensive car) and no C&C - it puts the responsibility on your own shoulders, and for most people it means if you do something stupid and wreck your own car, you will be using public transportation for the next year or so. When you know that if you wreck your car nobody is going to buy you another one, you tend to be a little more carefull.

If you buy a car with a loan, then the bank will require you to have C&C insurance, so the loan will be paid if the car is destroyed.

If you work out the rates, the amount you pay for C&C on your car will usually pay for a brand new car every 10 or 12 years, which means if you saved that money or invested it, instead of giving it to your insurance company, then every 12 years or so you will have enough cash to buy a new car (if you do total one eventually).

Statistically only one in four people will have a serious car accident during their lifetime. If the other 75% have C&C coverage they are handing the insurance companies a ton of money.

Cody Carey
08-21-2006, 02:10 PM
No, really... Vespas are great, and they cost next to nothing to insure each year :D

Wetzel
08-21-2006, 02:25 PM
Ken,

I missed the "don't have collision on you car" in the first post. In my head I made it "don't have a collision". Whoops. :o
That is about what I did with my first few cars. I had collision, which covered my liability if I hit someone, but not comprehensive, which would have covered damage I did to my own car. I did work out the rates, and 6 months of comprehensive premiums was greater than the cost of the car. :rolleyes:

Wetzel

artdutra04
08-21-2006, 03:13 PM
No, really... Vespas are great, and they cost next to nothing to insure each year :DWhy not get a Segway? :D You can certainly take them into a lot more places (I've ridden mine through supermarkets and Home Depot) and people just love them. I've lost track of how many employees have told me "That's a great idea! We should get some of those!" at Home Depot.

Average people in these stores seem to love it too. (When the inevitible "How much does it cost?" question comes up, more and more people are thinking that $5,000 "isn't that bad of a price", expecially with gas being the price it is.)

I brought mine to my job (Department of Public Utilities) last week, and after letting almost everyone there ride it, my boss' boss was convinced to buy the Golf one when he retires in two months, the Electric Division employees wanted to buy several for their electric meter-reader employees, the Water and Sewer Division employees wanted to purchase one for zipping around the water treatment plants, and several employees who work within a few miles of the Water/Sewer/Electric Division offices were seriously considering buying one for commuting to and from work. Talk about viral growth! :yikes:

KenWittlief
08-21-2006, 03:15 PM
Maybe your insurance company calls the coverage by different names than mine. At Travelers:

Liability: Required by law. Covers any damage you do to other peoples property, and personal injury to yourself, occupants in your car, and anyone else in an accident you cause.

Comprehensive: Covers fire, theft, vanalism, broken windows... but not damage resulting from an accident that you cause.

Collision: Covers damage to your car in an accident that you caused.

Some companies wont give you comprehensive coverage unless you also have collision coverage. Over the years they have learned that people will wreck their own cars, then report them as stolen - so most require you to have both, unless maybe the car is off the road (a collectors item stored in a garage).

Greg Perkins
08-21-2006, 03:36 PM
I pay $300.38 a month and drive a 2001 focus zx3.

I know mine is high, from two accidents and a speeding ticket.

Mike
08-21-2006, 04:20 PM
Thanks for the help everybody.

I talked to a boss of mine whos owned 7 Audis over the past 8-9 years (long story) but he said the average insurance for a mid 90s A4 is $150-$250, right around where I expected.


Are you paying for this yourself? Or are your parents paying? Remember that you have college to pay for ahead, and even regardless of scholarships there can be big costs for that as tuition rates skyrocket. I hate to be a killjoy, but the decision is really where you want your money - a sports car now, or an even better sports car later

I've worked on computers on/off since I was 14, washed dishes (20 hours a week) under the table coming up 9 months now and just got back from a job interview at Staples (I got it!) for another 15-20 hours a week. I'm the person that when you go out with your friends, goes to the matinee cinema (unless its snakes on a plane, tonight!) to save money. I've wanted a nice car since I was like 8 and now that I have the money, I want to buy something nice.

It'll also be paid off in full the day I buy it, but I'm still debating C&C coverage. I'll have to see how much extra it would cost me.

Vespas are a good idea, I'm actually planning on getting a sport bike if I move somewhere with a nicer climate for college. The problem is the New England winters, if you don't have 4 wheel drive (or quattro awd :D) don't expect to go anywhere.

I was also considering a cheaper car, like the VW Jetta or GTI. However the awd, leather seats, moonroof and overall luxury of Audi switched me over. They also aren't tooo expensive. A '98 A4 Quattro with a V6 2.8l (174hp) and about 100k miles on it can be had for around the $8,000 mark.


Thanks again for your help
-mike

Greg Perkins
08-21-2006, 04:54 PM
Mike,

I got my license in the fall of 1999 and was very careful about driving. Winter of '99 was a whole different story, at the time I was driving a 1991 Dodge Spirit and I had a heck of a time in the winter from my lack of experience.
It's nice your going and buying a nice Audi, but even with AWD your not invincible in the snow (as much as Audi claims to be). So just be careful, and think about your choice of car at this point in time, maybe like previously posted, a beater to get used to driving for ~ a year or so and continue saving your money up for an even better car (or newer A4).

Just my $.02

Mike
08-21-2006, 05:23 PM
Mike,

I got my license in the fall of 1999 and was very careful about driving. Winter of '99 was a whole different story, at the time I was driving a 1991 Dodge Spirit and I had a heck of a time in the winter from my lack of experience.
It's nice your going and buying a nice Audi, but even with AWD your not invincible in the snow (as much as Audi claims to be). So just be careful, and think about your choice of car at this point in time, maybe like previously posted, a beater to get used to driving for ~ a year or so and continue saving your money up for an even better car (or newer A4).

Just my $.02
Thanks, I am getting my license in November but am not totally sure when I'm getting the car. A part of me says "now!" but another is telling me to wait until February, when the snow gets lighter. I also think waiting will help me get a lower price, since it is now seen as another year older (2007 instead of 2006).

Jay H 237
08-21-2006, 06:14 PM
I want to add something that I forgot to mention and no one else did either.

If you increase your deductible it will lower your rates.

If you can afford it (if you ever need to make a claim) go for a $500 or $1000 deductible instead of $100 or no deductible at all.

How's this work? If you have a $100 deductible and then you have $750 in damages then you pay the first $100 and then the insurance covers the rest, $650. If you can afford to pay more out of your pocket in case of incident, the less your carrier has to pay, the less you will pay for coverage.

Body style of the vehicle will also affect the rates. You pay less for 4 drs and wagons than you do for 2 drs.

Some insurance companys also ask about the registration type. Here in CT some companies charge more for a "Combination" registration/plates than a regular one. You don't have to worry about this with an Audi but here in CT it has to be taken into account with most pick-ups and some full size vans that CT won't allow to be registered without 'stepping' up the registration to "Combination" even though the vehicle will NEVER be used for work purposes.

GaryVoshol
08-22-2006, 08:39 AM
I know she is cheaper than if she was a teenage boy ...Maybe, maybe not. Some places have embraced gender equity in law, and insurance companies cannot charge different rates for males and females. I also suspect that the accident rates between teen girls and guys has converged.

KenWittlief
08-22-2006, 09:32 AM
... I also suspect that the accident rates between teen girls and guys has converged.

why do you think that now, after people have been driving for approximately 100 years, that teenage boys no longer like to hot-rod and show off once they get behind the wheel?

or is there some other reason behind your suspicions?

Cynette
08-22-2006, 11:07 AM
why do you think that now, after people have been driving for approximately 100 years, that teenage boys no longer like to hot-rod and show off once they get behind the wheel?

or is there some other reason behind your suspicions?
LOL! I think the shrinking difference between teen girl and guy rates may be because the girls have finally realized how cool it is to "hot-rod and show off once they get behind the wheel." :cool:
I know she is cheaper than if she was a teenage boy ...I was basing this on the disparity between my son's initial rates for driving one of the family cars, vs my daughter's rate two years later. His rate was about 30% higher.

Jeremiah Johnson
08-22-2006, 12:05 PM
My sister just got her insurance yesterday. I think she might be a guy because she now pays more than I do with the same plan. She drives a '97 Hyundai Elantra. 4 door whatnot. $750 every 6 months. Mine's only about $500 every 6 months. I would check my bill but I just threw it out.

GaryVoshol
08-22-2006, 12:22 PM
why do you think that now, after people have been driving for approximately 100 years, that teenage boys no longer like to hot-rod and show off once they get behind the wheel?

or is there some other reason behind your suspicions?It's not that the boys are less reckless, but that the girls are more.

Loki1989
08-26-2006, 12:21 PM
Aparently guy teenagers have it the worst because they statistacally have more accidents so it will cost more which I personally think is B.S.

KenWittlief
08-26-2006, 01:46 PM
but thats what insurance is - spreading the misery out over a large group of people, so that no one person has to spend the rest of his life paying millions of dollars

because he blacked out behind the wheel and ran into a microbus full of Nuns carrying boxes of kittens to the disabled children at the outreach center!

At the end of the year the insurance companies add up how much they have paid out in claims, and divide it between their customers, based on their best assestment of the risks each group represents.

They dont pull those numbers out of the air (or anywhere else) - its based on what actually happens on the roadways during the previous year.

If all of a sudden everyone stopped having accidents, insurance rates would plummet!

Wetzel
08-26-2006, 02:29 PM
If all of a sudden everyone stopped having accidents, insurance rates would plummet!

Not just accidents, but car theft too. More then hald of all stolen cars were unlocked. If everyone locked their cars, insurance rates would plummet!

Wetzel

slickguy2007
08-26-2006, 07:51 PM
3 things popped into my head when I saw this thread:

"Save 15% in just 15 minutes or less"
and
"I just saved a whole bunch of money on my auto insurance by switching to Geico"
and
a 3d gecko

Put it all together and it means that their are way too many "Geico" commercials out there.

Mike
11-26-2006, 05:31 PM
Update:

Talked to my insurance company and got some quotes. A 1990 F150 would cost me $171 a month to insure, while the Audi would only be $184. This is now sitting in my driveway:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/mikeperson/audi/IMG_07661.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/mikeperson/audi/IMG_07631.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/mikeperson/audi/IMG_07691.jpg

1998 A4 4cyl 1.8T Quattro 5 speed
Sport package (different suspension setup/rims/some other little things)
Cold weather package (heated seats/steering wheel/driver side lock)
Convenience package (Keyless entry, power everything)
Luxury package (leather)

Beauuuuttttifulll car.

SamC
11-26-2006, 05:56 PM
Awesome! I have my permit now, but when I get my license in April I am hopeful of a car like that!

Billfred
11-26-2006, 06:08 PM
Looks like a winner. Happy driving!

KelliV
11-26-2006, 06:24 PM
Have fun with your car! My insurance is $82 a month for a 1993 Honda Civic.

Jay H 237
11-26-2006, 06:58 PM
Nice Mike! :)

With the marginal difference in insurance costs you might as well get the vehicle you wanted.

How many miles? I see you got it from a dealer so it sounds like you have a warranty of some sort.


The only thing I'd worry about is see how it is in the snow. Having all wheel drive is one thing but some of the performance tires don't do well in snow. You might have to get different tires or if you like the current tires get a second set of rims and mount other tires for the winter. Before you do anything you'll have to see how it is in the first few storms.


I guess I'll get to see it at one of the meetings coming up. ;)

Jeremiah Johnson
11-26-2006, 07:04 PM
Bah! I'm still suprised it was that much... the truck's is almost $50 more than mine and I drive a '91 S10... but I guess it's because the F150 is bigger... I would have expected the Audi to be more for a 16 year old (age right?).

Mike
11-26-2006, 07:12 PM
Nice Mike! :)

With the marginal difference in insurance costs you might as well get the vehicle you wanted.

How many miles? I see you got it from a dealer so it sounds like you have a warranty of some sort.


The only thing I'd worry about is see how it is in the snow. Having all wheel drive is one thing but some of the performance tires don't do well in snow. You might have to get different tires or if you like the current tires get a second set of rims and mount other tires for the winter. Before you do anything you'll have to see how it is in the first few storms.


I guess I'll get to see it at one of the meetings coming up. ;)
105k miles. Its definitely not low on mileage, but I made sure that the timing belt, control arms, tie rods, and all other parts that like to go on german cars were either replaced or in good condition. The dealer also gave us a 60 day full warranty. As long as you take good care of the car, these engines are good for at least 250k miles.

I have to take it back to the dealer tomorrow for detailing and a new windshield. The current one has a small crack. I'll definitely have it by next weeks meeting :D

I might end up getting a set of snow tires/rims. I was originally going to get some nice rims for the summertime and keep the stock ones for winter, but these are a lot nicer than I originally thought.

Yes, I'm 16.