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Conor Ryan
11-03-2006, 10:11 PM
So.. some of you may of heard about the new Fuel Cell Competition (http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2007/greenmachine.htm) FIRST is sponsoring..

Anyway, so teams that applied found out today if they were accepted....so who are you guys? 1403 is one of them, we hope we aren't alone.

It's interesting the way they are planning out the season, heres a clip of the email I got when we were accepted:

The competition game is in four stages: TIME LINE
1. Research and Development - Deadline: November 30, 2006
2. Building and Testing a Fuel Cell/System �- Deadline: December 31, 2006
3. Challenge: Design a Game (played by fuel cell hybrid robots, including game floor) �- Deadline: January 31, 2007
4. Inserting your hybrid fuel cell system into FIRST competition robot design - Deadline: February 9, 2007

So... looks like it's going to be an interesting season, any thoughts?

Guy Chriqui
11-04-2006, 01:28 AM
Team 4 is another one of them!
We look forward to trying this out.
-Guy

pufame
11-06-2006, 06:36 PM
Team 291 will be in this pilot program and we look forward to working with the fuel cells.

chris31
11-06-2006, 06:47 PM
Looks real cool. Unofrtunatly my team doesnt have the people or money to do it. It will be interesting to see how the teams liek it and what they do with it.

Conor Ryan
11-06-2006, 07:08 PM
We recieved the rules for part one today! Looks like we have until November 30th to answer some questions on Fuel Cells and compile a report on them. After that, we start building a testing some fuel cell systems.

pufame
11-06-2006, 07:22 PM
has anyone actually ordered the kit yet? We had off school today so we'll order ours on Thursday. With what we had to do for part one it said what was included with the kit. We get a 20 cell stack and 70L of Hydrogen. Does anyone know if this 20 cell stack is enough to power an FRC Robot or at least charge a battery?

I also calculated that with a 20 cell stack you can get 33 min of power out of the 70L of Hydrogen provided.

Conor Ryan
11-06-2006, 08:51 PM
has anyone actually ordered the kit yet? We had off school today so we'll order ours on Thursday. With what we had to do for part one it said what was included with the kit. We get a 20 cell stack and 70L of Hydrogen. Does anyone know if this 20 cell stack is enough to power an FRC Robot or at least charge a battery?

I also calculated that with a 20 cell stack you can get 33 min of power out of the 70L of Hydrogen provided.

We plan on ordering it tomorrow, we would of had it earlier but we didn't see the $75.00 shipping charge until they made the kit available to purchase.

pufame
11-06-2006, 09:19 PM
I know, that $75 was unexpected. But, I suppose it's worth it... I mean it's a chance to work with Hydrogen Fuel Cells!

yarb65
11-07-2006, 03:32 PM
Team 1662 is in. Has everyone received rules for part 1. We have not.

Conor Ryan
11-07-2006, 05:12 PM
Team 1662 is in. Has everyone received rules for part 1. We have not.Did you respond to the acceptance email?

nuggetsyl
11-07-2006, 05:55 PM
wow i guess our team did not get in. Is there a list of what teams are in the game and what is the objective.

yarb65
11-07-2006, 06:39 PM
Team 1662 is in. Has everyone received rules for part 1. We have not.
We did get a sheet titled R&D 1 part and R&D part 2, no real rules.

Wayne C.
11-07-2006, 08:50 PM
wow i guess our team did not get in. Is there a list of what teams are in the game and what is the objective.


actually Shaun- we were made an offer but management decided to pass for this year. We'll talk next Wednesday.

WC

Nica F.
11-07-2006, 08:56 PM
Build Season for the project overlaps FRC Build Season for about a month or so, what are your teams planning to do during that time? Do you have a group for FRC and another group for this?

laurenlacy
11-07-2006, 09:51 PM
1816 is doing it

Not2B
11-08-2006, 05:26 PM
Our's has been ordered...

Kims Robot
11-08-2006, 11:11 PM
1511 is in!! Our application was accepted. We actually have a mentor who took some coursework recently in FuelCells for work, so we just need to free him of his real work duties so he can come mentor our kids all the time!! lol.

This is going to be so cool... I think some of our mentors are actually more excited than some of the students! lol.

Build Season for the project overlaps FRC Build Season for about a month or so, what are your teams planning to do during that time? Do you have a group for FRC and another group for this?

We havent lain a solid plan, but the majority of the group interested in the fuel cell project is our electrical team. While some of them will have to work double duty, it is nice that it doesnt completely overlap build season. They can get some of their preliminary work done before fuel cell gets hectic in the last few weeks, skip out on us for two weeks, and then rejoin us once the final submission is in.

Plus I dont know if we plan on killing ourselves over it... it is a pilot program, and we are more in it for the chance to play with the cool new technology than to win anything.

All that said, it is a little easier for our team as 90% of our mentors are electrical or programming by trade. (go figure, software defined radios??)

Anyways, good luck to everyone else!!

On a similar note, would anyone be interested in sharing/discussing on CD? ie should we ask for our own Board (like the NI Labview board?)

Alex698
11-09-2006, 01:43 AM
All that said, it is a little easier for our team as 90% of our mentors are electrical or programming by trade. (go figure, software defined radios??)

SDR's? :cool: cool my explorer post just picked up some of those to play with. Amateur radios of course. What applications do you plan to use them with?

-Alex

FourPenguins
11-09-2006, 07:43 AM
We're in. Our mentor actually said something about one of our graduates from way back when being involved with FirstFuelCell, but I don't know how true that is.
This same mentor was about to assign the project to three sophomores until we told our physics teacher and he had a heart attack. Now there's a more experienced team on it. (Read as "kids who have actually taken chem.")
I haven't read up much on the competition because it's out of my department, but I'm interested to see what comes out of this. It takes FIRST back to its early days. In recent years, robots have become more and more commonplace, which makes FIRST less and less avant garde. We're still inspiring future scientists, but the wow factor is starting to diminish now that clean, pretty commercial robots are hitting shelves. Fuel cells are on the cutting edge, which is right where FIRST should be in my opinion.

pufame
11-09-2006, 05:02 PM
does anyone know how the actual competitions are going to work? Is this purely a mail in thing then trip to Atlanta if your one of the lucky few?

Just not really clear in all the literature...

thx

+()c|D
11-15-2006, 12:24 AM
Does anyone know when the build season is, Team 4 is in, but i have no idea about any of this stuff.

pufame
11-15-2006, 03:18 PM
Build Season for the project overlaps FRC Build Season for about a month or so, what are your teams planning to do during that time? Do you have a group for FRC and another group for this?

Most of our team comes from one school and a few come from two others. So we are going to do all of the Fuel Cell work during school (Engineering class, AutoCAD class, lunch, other moments of downtime) or immediatly after school. The regular build will take place in the evening in a seperate building (we would have it in the first school, but no machine shop :( ) This could get tricky trying to fit homework in there, but we wouln't have to attend both meetings ALL the time. I hope that works out for us.

laurenlacy
11-16-2006, 01:56 AM
Most of our team comes from one school and a few come from two others. So we are going to do all of the Fuel Cell work during school (Engineering class, AutoCAD class, lunch, other moments of downtime) or immediatly after school.


Ah you are so lucky to have a school that has CLASSES for that stuff!

Our team has a specific fuel cell group, though honestly it doesn't seem like it will be that insanely difficult... but the plans during the build season are just to have everyone do what is necessary, and the fuel cell team meet as necessary to get their job done.

PS that shipping charge was very unfortunate and unexpected!

+()c|D
11-16-2006, 02:16 AM
Most of our team comes from one school and a few come from two others. So we are going to do all of the Fuel Cell work during school (Engineering class, AutoCAD class, lunch, other moments of downtime) or immediatly after school. The regular build will take place in the evening in a seperate building (we would have it in the first school, but no machine shop :( ) This could get tricky trying to fit homework in there, but we wouln't have to attend both meetings ALL the time. I hope that works out for us.

Those classes are awsome

Conor Ryan
11-16-2006, 08:35 AM
Has anyone heard more on the kit? I heard they were having some issues with getting it distributed. We ordered ours about a week ago and we've yet to get it. Did anyone else have the same problem?

pufame
11-16-2006, 06:28 PM
Has anyone heard more on the kit? I heard they were having some issues with getting it distributed. We ordered ours about a week ago and we've yet to get it. Did anyone else have the same problem?

Just got ours ordered today, didn't know of any problems in shipping.

Kims Robot
11-18-2006, 06:41 PM
Has anyone heard more on the kit? I heard they were having some issues with getting it distributed. We ordered ours about a week ago and we've yet to get it. Did anyone else have the same problem?

I emailed Diane twice this week (accidentally put the wrong shipping zipcode on ours!!) and called a bunch of times. I didnt get an answer at all, and she seems pretty prompt, so it makes me think she is out of the office or something.

As for how the game is going to work, it seems like we are going to design a game and either one will be chosen or we build a robot for our game. But remember this is a pilot program, I think there is a lot of flexibility and they seem pretty open to ideas & questions.

Schedule is:
The competition game is in four stages: TIME LINE
1. Research and Development Deadline: November 30, 2006
2. Building and Testing a Fuel Cell/System Deadline: December 31, 2006
3. Challenge: Design a Game (played by fuel cell hybrid robots, including game floor) Deadline: January 31, 2007
4. Inserting your hybrid fuel cell system into FIRST competition robot design Deadline: February 9, 2007

pufame
11-20-2006, 10:54 AM
This is beginning to get a little frustrating, I realize it's just a pilot but the details are just WAY to vague. A few questions I had that others may have answers to or are wondering themselves...

1) On the site is says that March 1-3 are the competitions. It then links you to FIRST's website and a list of all FRC competitions. Does this mean that we are expected to model and/or show and/or play our game at all of our competitions?

2) When it says design a game for the robot to play, does this mean we are ACTUALLY making an entirely new playing field and set of rules? I mean I could see making this with pen and paper but to actually have to build the field, especially during build, seems a bit cumbersome.

3) When it says "install your fuel cell system into a FIRST competition robot," does this mean that we are intalling the rigs into our FRC robot or are we building seperate robots to play the games we designed or are we just makeing something that can move and power itself with the Hydrogen.

4) In the most recent e-mail, it says that ALL participating teams are invited to Atlanta for Nationals. Does this mean that we will
a) Compete in the FRC competition w/ the fuel cell rig in the robot
b) Compete in the FRC competition and show our fuel cells rig
c) Not Compete in the FRC competition and play our designed games in a seperate area
d) Compete in both FRC and a seperate competition
e) Some other odd combination of the above

5) How are we supposed to use our fuel cells rigs at any FIRST event, were not allowed to have flamable gas like Hydrogen at the event. Will there be a seperate area for Fuel Cell robots? Will we charge the batteries for our FRC robots outside or in a seperate area? Is there some other system?

6) Since all of these tasks say "Design" or insert into "design", does that mean that everything we do short of makeing a Fuel Cell System that can output power just be done with pen and paper? Will there even be a new robot or possibility of running our FRC robot off of Hydrogen, or will these just be hypothetical?

If anyone has any answers plese post it... I'm trying to get the answers through e-mail myself but I think I'm just spinning my wheels alot of the time.

UCGL_Guy
11-25-2006, 10:35 AM
476 is in and excited -- all I can say right now is to be patient. I believe it is up to these 50 teams to figure stuff out a little along the way.
Items of note; H2 is extremely flammable very broad flammability range -hence check out the MSDS. I would like to caution all teams working with this that it is lighter than air so be wary of places that it could pocket in your ceilings. You may also want to invest in a flammabilty monitor and possibly some ventilation.
2. I believe a 10 cell stack puts out 12 watts so 2 of these together are not going to power a lot. Battery charging may be the answer.

This will be interesting to see where this leads.

Nick 568
12-13-2006, 11:11 PM
568 is in! However, we have yet to get our fuel cell kit....apparently, FedEx shipped it all the way to Washington state, then sent it back... I think someone needs to tell FedEx that even tho Alaska is usually on the bottom of the map in it's own little section....that's not where Alaska really is....

Mr. President
12-24-2006, 01:20 AM
Team 1891 is in. We have had some setbacks in our process. our order "fell through the cracks" they thought we werent doing it anymore until they got our report. that kinda freaked them out. We didnt get our fuel cell till the 11th. and our membranes came the next day or something like that. then we realised we didnt have a torque wrench that went to the 8 inch pounds. so we talked to one of our Mentors from Micron and he got us one to use. Then after we got it assembled we had to wait for our hydrogen which didnt come to us until the 21st. we tested today for the first time, but didnt realize how fast we were going to run out of hydrogen. so now we have to get more hydrogen before we can do anymore testing. Are we the only ones who have been having thses problems, or is it like that for everyone?. Anyway its frustrating.

How many students does everyone else have working on this project? we have 3 students with 2 mentors.

But anyway this turned out much longer than i expected. But we are very excited to be doing this, just hope we can cram everything in and get it done.

David-

Alex698
12-25-2006, 10:30 AM
we tested today for the first time, but didnt realize how fast we were going to run out of hydrogen. so now we have to get more hydrogen before we can do anymore testing. -

Were you running the cell system closed?
Were you running the cell system at 3 psig?

Can anyone post fully completed photos of their systems especially the fuel line system?

Thanks
Alex

Mr. President
12-25-2006, 12:43 PM
We ran ours at a little over 1 PSI dead ended. We have pictures, but not here

WahooWa
01-01-2007, 03:15 PM
Team 476 is running around 10 students and 3 mentors.

WahooWa
01-21-2007, 01:14 PM
So has everyone gotten in both parts of the Green Machine Pilot thus far?

Cuog
01-21-2007, 02:57 PM
Team 422 is also doing the green Machine this year although our cell seems to be leaking so we have to fix that. Some of you seem to be really lucky for participants we have 4 or 5 students and the AP Chem. teacher working on it.

WahooWa
04-22-2007, 01:09 PM
So what teams were at the Championship for the awards/fuel cell meeting.

Nica F.
04-23-2007, 01:48 AM
So what teams were at the Championship for the awards/fuel cell meeting.


I don't think our team knew about the meeting.. but we did get an award in the mail.