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mormannoob
03-04-2007, 08:23 PM
i was curious if the regional winners should get a free ride to ATL (plane, hotel, the whole shabang) say why or why not i think it would be nice and would be a cool little extra reward

Koko Ed
03-04-2007, 08:24 PM
i was curious if the regional winners should get a free ride to ATL (plane, hotel, the whole shabang) say why or why not i think it would be nice give and be a cool little extra reward

Nope.
They have to pay their own way.
There hav been cases of teams qualifying for the championship and not going because they lacked funds (happens quite often, sadly).

TheNotoriousKid
03-04-2007, 08:25 PM
we went over this.........i started a "First PRize" thread and i was bashed for it soo.........i would quit right now.......lol........im serious.....

Pavan Dave
03-04-2007, 08:26 PM
Nope. It has never been that way and it never will. It would cost TOO much for FIRST to handle and plus, that isn't the point. I think FIRST would like to see more shipley's stickers on your bot showing that you worked hard to get to where you are rather than to hand you a free ride, because to me, that is what FIRST is about. Learning about the real world and making do with what you got.

Pavan.

mormannoob
03-04-2007, 08:30 PM
i just think it isn't fair for a team to win regionals and just because they cant afford to go to nats their season ends if we want to consider our selfs a sport i would assume it should work that way
i mean the best teams in each region should all have a chance to prove they're the best teams in he world

Pavan Dave
03-04-2007, 08:32 PM
But keep in mind that competition is not the number 1 goal of FIRST. Think of why the Chairmans award at regionals is more prestigious than a championship win? Competition is only the path that FIRST takes to bring science, engineering, and technology to the masses.

mormannoob
03-04-2007, 08:33 PM
Nope. It has never been that way and it never will. It would cost TOO much for FIRST to handle and plus, that isn't the point. I think FIRST would like to see more shipley's stickers on your bot showing that you worked hard to get to where you are rather than to hand you a free ride, because to me, that is what FIRST is about. Learning about the real world and making do with what you got.

Pavan.

i completely understand that FIRST is all about gracious professionalism and real world exposer but we are still a competion

joshsmithers
03-04-2007, 08:33 PM
It is my opinion that a team that wins regional or chairmans should not have to pay to attend, but must still pay for food, hotel, and traveling.

CraigHickman
03-04-2007, 08:34 PM
My opinion is slightly harsh... but here it is: If you cannot fund the absolute minimum to get yourself to Champs, then you haven't gone to your community enough, and aren't doing the main mission of FIRST, and so you do not deserve to go there anyway.

If a team seriously wants to go, there is nothing stopping them from getting the funding and sponsorship to go. The only limiter is how much they care, and how much they want it.

VanMan
03-04-2007, 08:34 PM
Ya, our team has to beg on Monday and Tuesday for money from our sponsors.

rees2001
03-04-2007, 08:35 PM
Nope.
They have to pay their own way.
There hav been cases of teams qualifying for the championship and not going because they lacked funds (happens quite often, sadly).

Been there. It stinks but, it makes you work that much harder the next year... 2003 ended bitter sweet, 2004 was a fun year for us.

Bongle
03-04-2007, 08:36 PM
i just think it isn't fair for a team to win regionals and just because they cant afford to go to nats their season ends if we want to consider our selfs a sport i would assume it should work that way
i mean the best teams in each region should all have a chance to prove they're the best teams in he world

And they do. You have to raise the money first though. Part of FIRST is supposed to be your community involvement. If you've already raised enough money to attend one regional ($6000 + transportation + hotel + food), then you just have to do that again to attend championships. You've got a month, you've got a regional win to advertise yourself with, it is possible. 1281 did it last year after we came from nowhere to win the Waterloo regional. We went into it expecting NOTHING, and ended up winning. We parlayed that into more donations, and went.

I'm fairly sure that the championship portion of most sports are not paid for. I'm a swimmer, and if i qualify for national championships, I still have to pay the entry fee, pay for the flight, pay for my hotel. Only in the very upper echelons of sports can you expect to get paid to be somewhere. And even then, you're not getting paid by the organization that is holding the event, you're getting paid by your team. The NHL doesn't pay the players to attend the stanley cup, their teams do. Where do the teams get their money? From their community.

It is my opinion that a team that wins regional or chairmans should not have to pay to attend, but must still pay for food, hotel, and traveling.
With 30 regionals each sending 3 regional winners and 1 chairman's winner each, that is nearly half of the teams attending not paying their entry fee, which comes to about 3/4 of a million dollars in revenue less for FIRST to hold the event.
Edit: assuming my memory is correct that the entry fee is $6,000.

mormannoob
03-04-2007, 08:37 PM
My opinion is slightly harsh... but here it is: If you cannot fund the absolute minimum to get yourself to Champs, then you haven't gone to your community enough, and aren't doing the main mission of FIRST, and so you do not deserve to go there anyway.

If a team seriously wants to go, there is nothing stopping them from getting the funding and sponsorship to go. The only limiter is how much they care, and how much they want it.

Im for that but i think maybe FIRST could at least pay for registration then sponsors could pay for travel room board etc

vivek16
03-04-2007, 09:02 PM
yeah the 6000 dollar entry fee seems a little too much. was there an entry fee for regionals?

i agree that there should not be an entry fee if they are good enough to make it to nationals.

Bongle
03-04-2007, 09:05 PM
yeah the 6000 dollar entry fee seems a little too much. was there an entry fee for regionals?

i agree that there should not be an entry fee if they are good enough to make it to nationals.

How would you feel if all the other teams had to pay ~$1200 ($1.5mil championship budget divided by 1300 teams) more in regional fees so that the 'good' teams could attend nationals? From my experience on a non-qualifying team, there'd be a lot of resentment that you're paying more so that those that have already won a regional can continue their season for free.

Yes, there is an entry fee for regionals. From FIRST's site (http://www.usfirst.org/what/frc/content.aspx?id=368):
The registration fee for a team's initial event of the season is $6,000. Subsequent Regional Events are $4,000 each, and the Championship is $5,000. Besides allowing you entry to one event, the fee covers the Kit of Parts, which includes all materials necessary to build a basic robot, and related software. It also includes team and technical support and program-related items, e.g. awards, trophies, Team Manual, and the Program Book.

Scott Perry
03-04-2007, 09:11 PM
My opinion is slightly harsh... but here it is: If you cannot fund the absolute minimum to get yourself to Champs, then you haven't gone to your community enough, and aren't doing the main mission of FIRST, and so you do not deserve to go there anyway.

If a team seriously wants to go, there is nothing stopping them from getting the funding and sponsorship to go. The only limiter is how much they care, and how much they want it.

I highly disagree. Not all communities have the resources to pour a minimum $6-12 thousand into an extracircular group, espacially when many consider it below athletics in nessessity. The community could be almost purely residental, or be very depressed/have high poverty.

Alexa Stott
03-04-2007, 09:12 PM
yeah the 6000 dollar entry fee seems a little too much. was there an entry fee for regionals?

i agree that there should not be an entry fee if they are good enough to make it to nationals.

There is an entry fee for every FIRST Event you attend.

Your first regional costs $6,000 and any other regional you attend costs $4,000. The Championship Event costs $5,000, if I recall correctly.

These fees are to help pay for the arena and anything else FIRST has to pay for running the event. I'm sure renting out the Georgia Dome for 3-4 days is expensive, so I doubt that it would be feasible for FIRST to pay for a team's registration. The most I could see would be a discount or something, though that doesn't seem very possible, either.

True, if a team wins and makes it to the championship, they should be able to go; money shouldn't be a problem. But that is just another challenge that FIRST offers. Not only do you have to build a robot, but you also have to find companies to support you. This has a dual purpose--it allows your team to receive money from the community, as well as spreads the word of FIRST to many different areas of society.

There are hundreds of fundraisers your team could do to raise money for Championships if needed. You could have car washes, bake sales, set up something with a local restaurant, or organize something in your school (something like how clubs sell roses for Valentine's Day).

FIRST isn't just about the robot. Sure, you can go an build a good robot and win a few events, but there is so much more to it than that. Your team needs to be able to function as a cohesive whole. You have to gain support from your school and community. As someone stated above, let people know about your success. Do tons and tons of outreach--it's a great way to meet local companies who may be potential sponsors. Ask around your team to see if there parents have connections anywhere; most of the money for our Brunswick Eruption shirts came from companies that team parents owned/worked for.

Basically, what I'm saying is, there are better ways to pay for your trip to Championships that getting FIRST to do it for you.

In response to Scott's post above (which he posted while I was still typing this one...): If your community feels that athletics is above FIRST, then make them feel otherwise. Our team has participated in numerous community events--fairs, festivals, running a Lego camp, volunteering at senior citizen functions, etc. Get the word out there about your team. Fans and support will follow from local residents, who probably work for some company who would LOVE to get involved with your team.

Koko Ed
03-04-2007, 09:14 PM
i just think it isn't fair for a team to win regionals and just because they cant afford to go to nats their season ends if we want to consider our selfs a sport i would assume it should work that way
i mean the best teams in each region should all have a chance to prove they're the best teams in he world

You don't understand the can of worms FIRST would open if they started paying the way for teams to go to the championship. Irregaurdless of whether they won a championship, EI, Chairman's or any other award.
Teams would say "why do they get money and we don't?" "Why would FIRST let Chairman's teams die out?" (it has happened) "why does FIRST let original teams die out?". "FIRST should fund more urban teams!" "FIRST should fund more rural teams!" "FIRST should fund more girl teams!"
The teams get a grant from NASA that pay for them to go to a NASA sponsered event but they need money from private enterprise to survive. It may not be fair but that's how things are done. I think that's why they created VEX for team that really cannot afford the FRC.
When FIRST starts picking favorites they sigh thier own death warrrant. Because teams will outright quit the program over stuff like that.

CraigHickman
03-04-2007, 09:16 PM
I highly disagree. Not all communities have the resources to pour a minimum $6-12 thousand into an extracircular group, espacially when many consider it below athletics in nessessity. The community could be almost purely residental, or be very depressed/have high poverty.

Carwashes, bake sales, and other easily available fund-raisers are not out of any teams reach, and can always be brought down (or up) to the level of the local economy. Our team brought in $500 in a one day car wash a couple years back. Being in America, there is always enough funding. I mean, if you're seriously having budget issues, the minimum you need to go to Champs is $6000 plus the cost for 4 member's hotel fees. $12k is a little high, as a robot can be built to a competition level based on random parts that would be otherwise thrown out from a hardware store and what comes in the kit.

Richard McClellan
03-04-2007, 09:22 PM
I agree with most of the posts here that teams should pay for the championship if invited, because there really isn't any other practical place for the event funding to come from.

What really needs to happen is in increase in robotics enthusiasm in every community, state, and country, as per Dean's homework this year, so that robotics can grow and become more and more respectable as an extracurricular activity. I would love to see the day when FIRST is as popular, or moreso than football or other school sports. When this happens, the school will be much more likely to help out with funding for regionals and championship.

DonRotolo
03-04-2007, 09:25 PM
Believe me, if FIRST could make all of this free for everyone, they would. The fact is, all of this costs a lot of money, much more than is collected in fees from teams, and it is only through the very generous donations of cash, people, product and facilities from various sponsors that FIRST even continues to exist.

If you knew what stuff costs in the real world, you'd blanch.

But, part of FIRST's mission is to teach you about reality, including the costs. A community of 2000 people can send a team to Atlanta for $10 per family, that's about 20 cents per week. Small, impoverished, whatever, it CAN be done.

Another part of the mission is to get these people - the general public, those who aren't really sure how to pay the next rent check - to believe that people working together in engineering and science can change the world for the better. If you convince them, 20 cents a week seems like a bargain (and it is).

Idealistic? Yes, absolutely. But, I have just enough foolishness to believe that I can change the world. And I sure am trying. You?

Don

Daniel_LaFleur
03-04-2007, 09:40 PM
Being in America, there is always enough funding.

Please take off the rose colored glasses, and look at the real world.

Whatever you might think, money does not grow on trees here. It needs to be earned. Not every team has the luxury of being able to do 1/2 the things you are assuming everyone can do.

Do I think that FIRST should pay for the regional winners to go to the championships? No. As I said, money does not grow on trees.

It is unfortunate that some teams cannot go to the championships, but please do not say that they are not trying to get funding, just because you do not see the challanges that they have.

Sometimes there really is not enough funding.

JaneYoung
03-04-2007, 09:48 PM
What really needs to happen is in increase in robotics enthusiasm in every community, state, and country, as per Dean's homework this year, so that robotics can grow and become more and more respectable as an extracurricular activity. I would love to see the day when FIRST is as popular, or moreso than football or other school sports. When this happens, the school will be much more likely to help out with funding for regionals and championship.

To add, my thinking is the strength of FIRST is going to be in the successes of its alumni as time passes. We have college mentors who are doing remarkable work for FIRST and for FIRST teams. We have college alumni who have returned as engineers. We have students who are making decisions to be teachers in our educational system. With each year that passes the strength of the program is developing and growing. It is my hope that school systems will be affected /impacted in ways that bring in more money for education in science and technology.

Winning a regional is wonderful, no doubt about it. The best part of winning the regional is how the team won it, students working side by side with engineers, teachers, professionals, sponsors, parents - building the team along with the robot, earning their way together.

I helped coach an athletic team a few years back. In the span of two years they sky rocketed to the top, winning at regional level their second try. We had worked hard and we knew we had improved and had a shot at it in their division. They won. We didn't have the monies to compete on the national level that year, nothing was in place. No fundraisers had been done, no parent group had been formed, no sponsors had been solicited. We just weren't ready for that next step. The next year, the team collapsed because no one was willing to step in and maintain the level they had achieved and work to help them. It was very sad but it happened.

It takes a lot of work and continued support to help a team succeed on every level, rookie, veteran, Hall of Famers. We earn our way, each of us. The Woodie Flowers and the Chairman's Award reflect that work, that effort.

mormannoob
03-04-2007, 09:51 PM
You don't understand the can of worms FIRST would open if they started paying the way for teams to go to the championship. Irregaurdless of whether they won a championship, EI, Chairman's or any other award.
Teams would say "why do they get money and we don't?" "Why would FIRST let Chairman's teams die out?" (it has happened) "why does FIRST let original teams die out?". "FIRST should fund more urban teams!" "FIRST should fund more rural teams!" "FIRST should fund more girl teams!"
The teams get a grant from NASA that pay for them to go to a NASA sponsered event but they need money from private enterprise to survive. It may not be fair but that's how things are done. I think that's why they created VEX for team that really cannot afford the FRC.
When FIRST starts picking favorites they sigh thier own death warrrant. Because teams will outright quit the program over stuff like that.

woah im saying pay for regional winners CM and EI not any team they choose

Koko Ed
03-04-2007, 10:10 PM
woah im saying pay for regional winners CM and EI not any team they choose

Like I said, if you pay for some why not others? People will complain bitterly. FIRST will not go for this because they don't want to hear it. So this will not happen. Period.

GaryVoshol
03-04-2007, 10:34 PM
There are 37 regionals this year, and 6 teams will qualify from each (3 winners, Chairman's, Eng Inspiration, and Rookie). That's 222 teams. Plus there's 28 other teams that are pre-qualified - Hall of Fame, last year's winners, etc.

Now FIRST knows that not all of these teams will be able to attend, for many reasons. That's why there aren't 222 spots still being held open in Atlanta. And some of those who will qualify have already registered and paid.

Some won't be allowed to take another half-week off of school. Some can't logistically swing it with short notice (mentors have to arrange vacation, etc.) And some can't afford it. Is it any less fair for a team to miss the Championships because they can't afford it, or because the mentors can't take any more vacation? We can't fix everything in the world. We can only try, as those posting fundraising ideas are doing.

If the 250 qualifying teams were given free registration, that would mean the other teams going would have to pay more than double to cover the costs. Or initial registration for every team, rookies included, would have to go up by over $1000 to have enough in the bank to pay for Atlanta. Is that fair?

Alexa Stott
03-04-2007, 10:35 PM
woah im saying pay for regional winners CM and EI not any team they choose

I can definitely see where KokoEd is coming with this argument.

If FIRST starts paying for Chairman's and EI teams, then why not sportsmanship award winners? Isn't that gracious professionalism, too? How about spirit? Doesn't cheering for EVERYONE mean that your team is graciously professional? If not those, then why not Innovation in Control? Isn't FIRST about coming up with an innovative way to complete a task?

I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this...

Petey
03-04-2007, 10:53 PM
If a team seriously wants to go, there is nothing stopping them from getting the funding and sponsorship to go. The only limiter is how much they care, and how much they want it.

With all due respect, you're with a veteran team. Our rookie year we qualified for nationals (by rookie inspiration award and highest seeded rookie) and had a good robot (did well into the semifinals).

We didn't have the money to go.

I believe that any team that qualifies by FIRST's criteria (regional champs, chairman's, and ROY) should not have to pay the $5k entrance fee. That's like a baseball team winning into the playoffs and then having to fork over money to make it to the World Series.

If you didn't qualify on the basis of your competitive merits, then you should have to pay an entrance fee. But I do not think it is especially fair, even if it may be economically necessary, to charge for entrance to the national championship.

FIRST may not be ABOUT the competition, but it IS a competition.

Disclaimer: My team raises about $20k a year, and we invest about $16k into the regional, the robot, and assorted events we run (FLL, etc). That said, the two towns that comprise our district are two of the most affluent in Southern NH. Our team's founding coach was the guy behind WinZip. There is some industry in the area. But we do scrap for funding, doing car washes, car shows, and the like. Our school is our biggest sponsor. They give us the entry fee and they've been talking about cutting that.

Hollis/Brookline has an average family income of $137k. The surrounding towns in Hillsborough County have an average of $35k. Think they can scrap together the money? The Green Team, 885 from Vermont, has something like eight kids from four towns in rural Vermont. They barely do it--there is a reason there is only one team from Vermont.

Dean says that the biggest impediment to FIRST being spread everywhere is ignorance of it. That's not true. Convincing people of FIRST's worth isn't difficult once they see it in action. The two biggest problems are a) getting people to regionals and B) finding the money to run a program that costs $20k a year.

artdutra04
03-04-2007, 11:13 PM
I've been on FIRST event planning committees before, and I can honestly say to host a FIRST event isn't cheap! There are a lot of expenses involved, including many that the general public never sees but are necessary for the event to be held. Within registration fees, FIRST cannot absorb all the costs needed to run a competition.

Seeing how the registration fees are needed to run the event, it is possible to raise enough money in a short period of time to fund going to the Championships, all that you really need is to REALLY WANT to do it. Where there is a will, there is a way! ;)

In addition to the ideas already presented in this thread, here is another idea that can work. Look closely at the costs needed, and see how much of it the team really needs to spend. The bare minimum needed is the registration fees; while funding the students travel expenses is a nice bonus, if you're broke you only need to focus on needs, and not wants. Have the students and mentors pay for their own hotel and airfare; this will usually cost about $400 per student if you can find a good airfare deal.

So now all you really need is the $5000 registration fee. In tight situation, if you feel that you can raise enough money in fundraisers to pay off the trip, have a team mentor take out a new credit card for the team and put the $5000 registration fee on that. (A six-month, no interest one is usually the best choice.)

Now you have six months to raise $5000. From our experiences, car washes can bring in about $500 in profits. Pasta dinners can bring in close to $1000. Pancake breakfasts can also bring in a lot. Can and Bottle drives (if your state has beverage container deposit programs) can bring in $500-$750. If your team takes the initiative and plans one or two large fundraisers like this each month, you can be sure you'll be able to raise the $5000 needed for the event.

KarenH
03-04-2007, 11:24 PM
i was curious if the regional winners should get a free ride to ATL (plane, hotel, the whole shabang) say why or why not i think it would be nice and would be a cool little extra reward
I have a problem with two words in your post: "free" and "little." I think people have already explained that the costs involved would not be "little."

"Free" reminds me of the old saying, "There is no free lunch." A few things in life are free--sunsets, for example (though you still have to spend the time to look at them in order to get the full benefit). But be careful to avoid the word "free" whenever you're discussing things that must be obtained with money. Somebody has to pay for it.

Just one example: I'm the one who ordered our team's T-shirts this year. Our team policy is that students and mentors are not charged for their own shirts that they wear to competitions. But I am careful not to tell students that their shirts are "free," because they're NOT free. The team has to pay for those shirts out of limited team funds.

AdamHeard
03-04-2007, 11:24 PM
I believe that any team that qualifies by FIRST's criteria (regional champs, chairman's, and ROY) should not have to pay the $5k entrance fee. That's like a baseball team winning into the playoffs and then having to fork over money to make it to the World Series.


The fans pay for the world series; unfortunately, FIRST isn't at the the same level yet. So, the teams have to pay.

FIRST simply can't afford to have over half of the teams not pay. If it were just rookie teams, there would probalby be no more than 70ish (rookie all star, and assuming each regional has one rookie winner), but more likely 45ish. That would be more feasible for FIRST to give a discount too; but I still doubt FIRST could simply waive the fee. I bet they would like to, but they can't.

Now, It'd be nice if FIRST pushed the idea of some of the big name sponsors providing funds for this. I know the Anenburg (is that right?) foundation paid the way for LA regional winners in '06. I don't know if FIRST is already promoting this or not, but it is the only realistic method of this happening at this time.

There will always be teams who can't afford travel; Veteran and rookie alike. It's just how the world is and we can't change that.

If my team lost Northrop Grumman as a sponsor next year and planned on just won regional, but ended up winning it and being unable to afford it, I would work my butt off to raise the money. If we couldn't raise the money I would naturally be upset, but that's just the way life is.

Petey
03-04-2007, 11:48 PM
There will always be teams who can't afford travel; Veteran and rookie alike. It's just how the world is and we can't change that.

Right. But I think the cost of FIRST is a great impediment to it expanding to the level Dean wants, especially in less affluent states/areas. New Hampshire has a relatively large FIRST population because it is the home state, but schools here are famously underfunded, which is why there aren't more.

And even though I go to UMass Amherst--one of the largest engineering schools in the country--I've yet to meet a single person here who had ever heard of FIRST.

Maybe FIRST is scalable (although I don't think we can really handle, say, 50 regionals with a team from every high school, all sending more and more to the nats). It's definitely important and worthwhile. But is it fiscally feasible? You've got schools that can't pay for books or can't pay for teachers, how are you going to convince them to pay for FIRST? Hell, my town is talking about cutting all non-varsity-sport extracurricular activities next year. I doubt it will be so draconian--as I detailed in an earlier post, we generally have the money. But at the same time, FIRST is going to have to get cheaper for more people to buy into it.

John Gutmann
03-05-2007, 04:23 PM
FIRST isn't supposed to be about competition. If you win regionals sure you can raise more money to go to atlanta. If you cant raise enough money in that small amount of time. Take a little longer and raise the money to start a new team instead. The costs are pretty close to equal.

-John

MissInformation
03-05-2007, 04:59 PM
i agree that there should not be an entry fee if they are good enough to make it to nationals.

Every single team out there is good enough to make it to the Championship competition. I suppose you mean "good enough" in regards to three teams having good enough robots, good enough flight crews with good enough skills and good enough luck (yes, luck) to win their Regional, but I don't think that definition of a good enough team deserves any special treatment over a team that has a robot that breaks down, code that doesn't work and a flight crew that allows all students, no matter what their experience, a shot at driving the robot.

Heidi

Tottanka
03-05-2007, 05:17 PM
Well Well Well...
I'ts easy for you guys to say it, but we as an Israeli team need a lot of money to go to Nats...
It comes out like this:
Per Student: 1000$ per flight ticket, 150$ hotel, 100$ additional transportaion and food, 40$ for a Visa to the U.S

That is a total of 1290$ per student...
lets say that we need a human player, 2 drivers a coach and 2 mentors as a Minimum for taht travel...

We are now standig at 7740$

Now for the bot shipping its an additional 300$

total of: 8140$ for a team of 6 members.

Our sponsor wont give us anymore money, and we dont expact it to. Its 7500$ spent on the building + 1 regional is more then we expact.

As a city where the average sallery per person is 3000NIS per month, which is 26,000 NIS per year = 6900$ per year, we cant possibly expact to gather more then a 1000$ from good civilians. Say sponsors give us 2 more G's and schools gives 2 more G's we are now at 5.

And now the rest of the money is going to be spent by team mebers bank accounts. I really dont think that this is what FIRST is about, it snot about wasting your own money on that.
FIRST should not give us money, but it should serioulsy help teams from UK, Netherlans, Brazil and Israel (am i forgeting a country?) cross the sea and particiapte in the great event in Georgia.

Vexkingof716
03-05-2007, 05:57 PM
Everyone is talking about the team raising all of the money for all travel stuff. on our team the only thing the team raises money for is regionals. each kid must pay for travel and food. Now we only fly to Nats so we dont pay for the travel to the regionals we went to this year(we want to go to the hawaii one next year:) ) but each kid pays for the hotel food and the plane ticket. I don't think first should give free registration to anyone. if that happened i would be more jealous of of other teams. as it is hearing about teams where the people on them don't pay for travel is bad enough. we are from a very rural area. there are 7 towns going into one regional school of about 500 students. we have around 10 to 13 kids on the team. we have been able to go to 2 regionals and the championship almost every year. our biggest sponser is our school who pays for the registration, then a comunity group thing pays for another regional usually and the rest we raise ourselves. we get 1500 each year from certain companies but the rest is from the community. each student is asked to go out into the community and ask for money. most of the donations are 25 to 50 dollars each. there are only a few big donations. we are constantly asking for more.

Plus in our school because we are a newer school the other clubs all have there fundraisers like candy sales so we can't do those so we have to be really creative. Not only is our team small 7 or 8 of the studenst are from one town then there are a few from one or two other towns and i'm the only one from my town. we got the money to go to nats a few days before it was due this year. it was a lot of work but we got it.

now we are seting our goals higher for next year and going for enough money so we can go to the hawaii regional.:rolleyes:

John Gutmann
03-05-2007, 05:58 PM
Well Well Well...
I'ts easy for you guys to say it, but we as an Israeli team need a lot of money to go to Nats...
It comes out like this:
Per Student: 1000$ per flight ticket, 150$ hotel, 100$ additional transportaion and food, 40$ for a Visa to the U.S

That is a total of 1290$ per student...
lets say that we need a human player, 2 drivers a coach and 2 mentors as a Minimum for taht travel...

We are now standig at 7740$

Now for the bot shipping its an additional 300$

total of: 8140$ for a team of 6 members.

Our sponsor wont give us anymore money, and we dont expact it to. Its 7500$ spent on the building + 1 regional is more then we expact.

As a city where the average sallery per person is 3000NIS per month, which is 26,000 NIS per year = 6900$ per year, we cant possibly expact to gather more then a 1000$ from good civilians. Say sponsors give us 2 more G's and schools gives 2 more G's we are now at 5.

And now the rest of the money is going to be spent by team mebers bank accounts. I really dont think that this is what FIRST is about, it snot about wasting your own money on that.
FIRST should not give us money, but it should serioulsy help teams from UK, Netherlans, Brazil and Israel (am i forgeting a country?) cross the sea and particiapte in the great event in Georgia.


Have you contacted any teams here in America? I am sure they would love to try to help out.

-John

JaneYoung
03-05-2007, 06:00 PM
I'ts easy for you guys to say it, but we as an Israeli team need a lot of money to go to Nats...


I'n not sure that any of us can assume that anything is easy when it comes to finding/raising money for the opportunity to compete at the Championship. Every team is unique in its needs, location, make-up. No 2 teams are alike and we wouldn't want the teams to be.

The title of this thread is Free Ride. As KarenH wisely said, nothing is free, someone pays. At this point, I do not believe that the organization of FIRST can absorb the registration costs of teams that qualify for the Championship by a win. I do believe that all of the students, mentors, parents, and sponsors, and the people of FIRST - understand the efforts that teams make in accomplishing this goal and in a big way, it is one reason among many that the Championship is such a time of celebration.

EricH
03-05-2007, 06:00 PM
I think it would be a bad idea, just in terms of finances.

Some assumptions:

Only teams that have not already qualified/registered win awards to send them to Atlanta.
Registration is $5,000, travel is $1,000/person. (Just to make it easier)
All qualifying teams send 4 people and a robot.
There are 6 qualifying teams per event.So, for one team sending four people, costs would be about $9,000.
$9,000 *6 (for one regional)= $54,000 per regional
$54,000 *36 regionals=$1,944,000 to send all the teams that qualify, plus about another $1000 per non-North American team (of which there would be 12--Israel and Brazil)=$1,956,000 all told.

Now, let's round to $2,000,000 (2 million) for ease of use. We will also assume a cap of 400 teams on the Championship.

2 scenarios:

1. The $2 million is divided among all the teams at entry. $2,000,000/1,000= $2,000 extra per team registration fee, putting the intitial money at $8,000 for the kit and one regional. I'm not sure how many teams would still survive.

2. The $2 million is divided among the teams that pay to go to Championships. 400-(36*6)= 184 paying teams. $2,000,000/184=$10,869 added. Ouch.

It is not financially feasable to do a "free ride" or even a substantial discount. Start fundraising now for next year if you can.

Pavan Dave
03-05-2007, 06:12 PM
The fans pay for the world series; unfortunately, FIRST isn't at the the same level yet. So, the teams have to pay.

I would like to extend on this.

FIRST is defiantly not at the leagues of the NBA, NFL, not even the NHL. The only way that these events are paid for are mostly by fans. We all buy tickets to see our favorite athletes compete their hearts out and hopefully to see our team win. Now I'm not sure but FIRST is trying to get its name out is it not? And every year teams are started because a few people came to a free regional or championship event and were hooked. I want you to consider, if we tabbed one, two or even three dollars to get into the event for all spectators and tell me how many people will still come and how many people will still start teams. Of course there will be some, but the rate as of past years would have dramatically stopped.

We want MORE people in FIRST, not less people and 'cheaper' fairs for teams.

Pavan.