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chaineezee
01-05-2008, 06:16 PM
Do we have to have the trackball higher than the lane divider in the air before completing a hurdle?

Can it be launched (i.e. w/ 3 ft. catapault) over the overpass to complete a hurdle?

Noah Kleinberg
01-05-2008, 06:36 PM
From the definition of hurdling in the manual, "[To be considered hurtling the robot must] be moving toward the OVERPASS and/or elevating the TRACKBALL so that the top of the TRACKBALL is higher than the LANE DIVIDER."

So it sounds like if you go by that strictly you don't have to lift it in the air as long as you're driving towards the overpass when you launch the ball.

This seems like a sort of a wierd rule though, maybe it will be clarified in the Q&A.

Mike Schreiber
01-05-2008, 06:37 PM
For anyone reading this here is what the question is referring to

Section 7.2 says:

HURDLING: The act of completing a HURDLE. To be considered in the process of HURDLING,
the ROBOT must:
• be in its own HOME STRETCH, and
• be in POSSESSION of a TRACKBALL, and
• be moving toward the OVERPASS and/or elevating the TRACKBALL so that the top of the TRACKBALL is higher than the LANE DIVIDER.

What that last section means however is unclear and I would think that you can not be in possession of the ball if you have catapulted it, however in the demonstration the "robots" (humans) were just throwing them over without extending the balls necessarily over the 6 1/2 ' barrier of the top of the divider

Anyone else got input?

ubermeister
01-05-2008, 08:32 PM
The definitions say

HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating robot.

HURDLING: The act of completing a HURDLE. To be considered in the process of HURDLING,
the ROBOT must:
• be in its own HOME STRETCH, and
• be in POSSESSION of a TRACKBALL, and
• be moving toward the OVERPASS and/or elevating the TRACKBALL so that the top of the TRACKBALL is higher than the LANE DIVIDER.

This makes it sound like you only need to complete a HURDLE to score points, and that the HURDLING definition only applies to the referrees making calls about IMPEDING:

Note that a ROBOT is not IMPEDING traffic if:
the ROBOT is in the process of HURDLING (except as noted in Rule <G43>).

So, yes, throwing it over is a legal and scoring move, but if you stop to do so, it is considered IMPEDING.

EDIT: Wait, never mind- I am confused too now, since I missed the line "The act of completing a HURDLE."

daftpunk79
01-05-2008, 08:44 PM
pretty much all 3 are exactly right...easier simpiler terms, if you are moving when you are about to hurdle the ball can be all the way to the ground, but if you are in one place with the ball, the top of the ball must be higher than the lane divider. weve gone through this so many times its engraved.

Kevin Sevcik
01-05-2008, 08:45 PM
I think we should probably assume that the HURDLE definition is the one that defines what a HURDLE is for scoring purposes. HURDLING is a separate definition and shouldn't be considered for the scoring.

Laaba 80
01-05-2008, 08:51 PM
The way i interpruit it is that tha act of hurdling only matters for imoeding, and other robots hitting you. when you read the Hurdle definition, it doesnt say you need to be in the process of hurdling, so I see them as two seperate rules.
Joey

neoshaakti
01-06-2008, 07:07 AM
I dont think that launching the ball is considered hurdling because the definition says that
a. Hurdling is the "The act of completing a HURDLE."
in order to complete a hurdle, a robot has to
"be in POSSESSION of a TRACKBALL"
Possession is - "Controlling the position and movement of a TRACKBALL while the TRACKBALL is supported or captured"
we obviously know that ball isnt "captured" when its in mid air

but is it supported?
no I dont think it is

"A TRACKBALL shall be considered “supported” by a ROBOT if in the estimation of a reasonably
astute observer the majority of the weight of the TRACKBALL is being borne by the ROBOT."

I dont think that the weight of the trackball is supported by a robot if its traveling through the air

I might be wrong though, Id appreciate it you informed me of any flaws in my logic

ALIBI
01-06-2008, 07:51 AM
A HURDLE occurs when a TRACKBALL passes over your alliances overpass. It does not say that the trackball must first be elevated so that the top of the trackball is above the lane divider. Launching from the floor should count.

HURDLING: Must be in home stretch. Must be in possession of trackball. Must be moving towards overpass "and/or" elevating trackball so that the top of the trackball is above the lane divider.

To be considered in the process of hurdling and protected by G42, you must: be in your home stretch and posses a trackball no matter what. The "and/or" can be one of two things or both:

1: moving towards the overpass (trackball does not have to be elevated)
2: the trackball is elevated so that the top of the trackball is above the lane divider (you do not necessarily need to be moving towards the overpass)

It seems like you could be given protection of rule G42 when you are setting up placing a trackball on the overpass, who knows if you are passing or placing, as long as the top of the trackball is above the lane divider.

Nuttyman54
01-06-2008, 09:29 AM
I dont think that launching the ball is considered hurdling because the definition says that
a. Hurdling is the "The act of completing a HURDLE."
in order to complete a hurdle, a robot has to
"be in POSSESSION of a TRACKBALL"
Possession is - "Controlling the position and movement of a TRACKBALL while the TRACKBALL is supported or captured"
we obviously know that ball isnt "captured" when its in mid air

but is it supported?
no I dont think it is

"A TRACKBALL shall be considered “supported” by a ROBOT if in the estimation of a reasonably
astute observer the majority of the weight of the TRACKBALL is being borne by the ROBOT."

I dont think that the weight of the trackball is supported by a robot if its traveling through the air

I might be wrong though, Id appreciate it you informed me of any flaws in my logic

The is a lot of confusion on this point, myself included. By the scoring definition, the trackball cannot be touching the robot to count. If you go by this, then at SOME point during the hurdling process (which, by the HURDLE definition, isn't completed until it touches the ground or another robot) then your robot MUST loose possession of the ball, if only momentarily, during the maneuver.

I'm going to jump in with the school of thought that a ball being hurdled is independent of whether or not a robot is hurdling it. From what I can tell, The ball scores regardless of what the robot does, since it just has to meet the conditions of the hurdling definition:

"When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE, while passing over the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT."

as long as it meets that for its own color finish line (per rule G11) then it scores 8 points, regardless of what the robot is doing in the time that the ball is going over.

During that time, it's hard to say whether or not the robot is hurdling, since the it's "[t]he act of completing a HURDLE", but also must be in possession of the ball. Since you have to let go of the ball at some point, it's unclear as to if the robot is still hurdling then (because the hurdle conditions has not been met until the ball hits the floor or another robot), or if the robot is NOT still hurdling, because they are no longer in the possession of the ball.

meaubry
01-07-2008, 07:12 PM
This issue was resolved in Update #1 - I'm closing this one in order to clean up the number of posts no longer needed.

Mike Aubry
Chief Delphi Engineering Lead