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HokieTutorunie
01-07-2009, 08:15 AM
Are any teams taking advantage of the opportunity to buy a 2nd control system?

Does the origninal have to be shipped with the robot or can teams hang on to it for a practice bot?

jgannon
01-07-2009, 08:18 AM
Does the origninal have to be shipped with the robot or can teams hang on to it for a practice bot?
Section 8 of the manual covers the new WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE rule, which specifies what and how much you are allowed to keep instead of shipping.

Alan Anderson
01-07-2009, 09:16 AM
Our additional control system is on its way to the team right now.

When we ship our competition robot, we'll probably keep the operator console for driver practice using our prototype 'bot.

HokieTutorunie
01-07-2009, 09:38 AM
What will you use the 2nd unit for if you can keep the original to use on your prototype bot?

Russ Beavis
01-07-2009, 10:06 AM
Please consult the shipping instructions in Section 4 of the 2009 manual for the official answer but I believe that your robot's cRIO (specifically your primary cRIO) needs to be shipped with the robot in mid-February. However, you're allowed to keep your Operator Console and any additional cRIOs for additional development work and personally carry these items to your regionals.

Russ

jgannon
01-07-2009, 10:33 AM
I believe that your robot's cRIO (specifically your primary cRIO) needs to be shipped with the robot in mid-February.
Can you quote this rule?

dcbrown
01-07-2009, 11:04 AM
<R26>
During the period between the shipment of the ROBOT and the competitions: During this period, all teams may manufacture SPARE, REPLACEMENT, and UPGRADE PARTS, and develop software for their ROBOT at their home facility.
A.
Teams may manufacture all the SPARE, REPLACEMENT and UPGRADE PARTS they want.
B.
There is no limit to the amount of time that may be put into this effort, other than via the realities of the calendar.
C.
Teams may continue development of any items retained under the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE, continue to work on them during this period, and then bring them to the competition events.
D.
The total weight of the FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE, REPLACEMENT, and UPGRADE PARTS, plus all WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE items) worked upon during this period and brought to the competition event(s) must not exceed the limits specified in Rule <R36>.
The primary intent of this rule is to allow teams to withhold the ROBOT control system, the OPERATOR CONSOLE, and selected relevant subsystems, and access them after the shipping deadline. This will allow teams to have the maximum time possible prior to each competition event to develop and complete the software for their ROBOT while maximizing the potential to understand and use the capabilities provided by the new control system.

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"The primary intent of this rule is to allow teams to withold the ROBOT control system..."

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It could be spelled out better I suppose, but the intent is there. In R25 it states:

"The entire ROBOT (including all FABRICATED ITEMS intended for use during the competition in alternative configurations of the ROBOT) must be crated and out of team hands by the shipment deadline specified in Section 4.10 (with the exception of the items covered by the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE)."

But unfortunately I couldn't find any succinct list of cRIO, sidecar, etc. -- for example what does "relevant subsystems" in R26 really cover? Sounds like someone should ask for clarification... but as it stands the cRIO itself seems to be covered as being allowed in the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE. Of course it then counts towards the total 40 lbs limit specified in R36.

Alan Anderson
01-07-2009, 11:17 AM
Please consult the shipping instructions in Section 4 of the 2009 manual for the official answer but I believe that your robot's cRIO (specifically your primary cRIO) needs to be shipped with the robot in mid-February.

The official answer says that your belief is incorrect:

...The primary intent of this rule is to allow teams to withhold the ROBOT control system, the OPERATOR CONSOLE, and selected relevant subsystems, and access them after the shipping deadline. This will allow teams to have the maximum time possible prior to each competition event to develop and complete the software for their ROBOT while maximizing the potential to understand and use the capabilities provided by the new control system.

However, you're allowed to keep your Operator Console and any additional cRIOs for additional development work and personally carry these items to your regionals.

The definition of WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCES says "The OPERATOR CONSOLE is automatically included in the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE" and <R36> says the weight of the OPERATOR CONSOLE doesn't count toward the 40 pound "incoming material maximum" limit.

Russ Beavis
01-07-2009, 11:38 AM
I stand corrected. I remembered reading about the operator console being withheld in Section 8 but I forgot about the control system as well (maybe it was the BOLD letters for the console that helped my memory).

Thanks,
Russ

Terry Sherman
01-07-2009, 11:42 AM
Where can I find out more about the 2nd cRIO Offer? I do not believe we have information on how to place an order for one.

Also, I know andymark.biz has the auxiliary control system components, where can we find other parts from the KOP parts not found there such as the jaguars, the Axis camera, camera pan/tile mount, etc.

Thanks!

Alan Anderson
01-07-2009, 01:56 PM
Where can I find out more about the 2nd cRIO Offer? I do not believe we have information on how to place an order for one.

A ten-second search here finds several threads with that information. Bottom line: see http://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-2823 for the official word from National Instruments.

where can we find other parts from the KOP parts not found there such as the jaguars,

Again, a quick search of the Chief Delphi forums yields the answer.
Start here: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71303

There is not yet a source identified for the camera pan/tilt assembly. Other components are commercially available from places like Newegg or Fry's.