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Nuttyman54
03-15-2010, 08:47 PM
At the WPI regional, there was almost a repeat of the 2009 BAE alliance selection incident. This occurred when the alliance selection process began before the rankings had updated with the results of the last two matches. I noticed that the rankings did not update for a long time throughout the regional.

My concern is not about what happened at WPI, but at other regionals. Looking at the posted rankings, many regionals from Week 1 and 2 have posted rankings which show less matches played for a handful of teams (including WPI, who has the incorrect final rankings posted to the FIRST website). My question is, can anyone verify that other events had updated rankings when the picks were made? Additionally, has anyone else noticed slow-updating rankings?

Alex Cormier
03-15-2010, 09:04 PM
At the WPI regional, there was almost a repeat of the 2009 BAE alliance selection incident. This occurred when the alliance selection process began before the rankings had updated with the results of the last two matches. I noticed that the rankings did not update for a long time throughout the regional.

My concern is not about what happened at WPI, but at other regionals. Looking at the posted rankings, many regionals from Week 1 and 2 have posted rankings which show less matches played for a handful of teams (including WPI, who has the incorrect final rankings posted to the FIRST website). My question is, can anyone verify that other events had updated rankings when the picks were made? Additionally, has anyone else noticed slow-updating rankings?

When a team receives a red card, it basically shows them as not playing that match. We received one during week 1 and on the FIRST site, it showed as us playing 9 matches when we really did play all 10. Another team received 2 red cards and was shown only playing 8 matches. It's the nature of this game.

Stephi Rae
03-16-2010, 02:04 PM
There were no red cards given at WPI, and yet the final rankings show some teams with less matches than others. The concern that Nuttyman has expressed is the same as my own. With this new ranking system, it is much easier to miss a mistake where a match's scores are not entered. I was very surprised to see that there was a mistake in the rankings at the WPI regional. I was glad that were able to see the mistake and remedy it before alliance selections were finished. It made the difference of Team 190 being ranked 10th, and 4th.

I do not want to give the appearance of placing blame on any WPI regional volunteers. This was a VERY smoothly run event, and very fun. However, I would like to caution teams to maybe double check their seeding scores or at least keep an eye on them throughout the competition to make sure that all things are being counted and updated correctly by the system.

Rizner
03-16-2010, 03:14 PM
There were no red cards given at WPI, and yet the final rankings show some teams with less matches than others. The concern that Nuttyman has expressed is the same as my own. With this new ranking system, it is much easier to miss a mistake where a match's scores are not entered. I was very surprised to see that there was a mistake in the rankings at the WPI regional. I was glad that were able to see the mistake and remedy it before alliance selections were finished. It made the difference of Team 190 being ranked 10th, and 4th.

I do not want to give the appearance of placing blame on any WPI regional volunteers. This was a VERY smoothly run event, and very fun. However, I would like to caution teams to maybe double check their seeding scores or at least keep an eye on them throughout the competition to make sure that all things are being counted and updated correctly by the system.

Possibly some teams missed a match or weren't inspected in time?

EricH
03-16-2010, 03:20 PM
Possibly some teams missed a match or weren't inspected in time?
That's my guess. If you look at Arizona, a number of teams near the bottom have < 10 matches (the standard for everyone else). I happen to know that some of those teams didn't pass inspection until Friday afternoon, causing them to miss matches.

See TU#16 for the rule change that caused this.

Jim Schaddelee
03-16-2010, 03:45 PM
I think that there was a problem At the TC district also. I thought we were the number 2 seed until they announced 2717 was. 2717 is a great team and select us as their partner.But, I not sure where we really finished .On the FIRST web site they had us at 2nd seed. I think that at the event at 5th seed and on blue alliance at 7th. I think the people at TC did a great job. My advise is if things like this happen.....and it will, don't let it distract you. Just have Fun.

pathew100
03-16-2010, 04:17 PM
There is a selection in the FMS software that lets the FTA or scorekeeper 'manually' recalculate. Normally the rankings update automatically after every match but sometimes it does not. The rankings are 'manually' recalculated at the end of qualification rounds and periodically during to ensure they are updated.

If you notice during qualifcations that the rankings haven't updated or don't show a result for a match, ask someone at the scorer's table to recalculate the rankings. This only takes a few seconds and can be done between matches. The website may update slower.

Before alliance selection starts, we verify that the rankings show every team has played the correct number of matches (minus red cards, no shows and non-inspected robots).

yodameister
03-16-2010, 06:21 PM
The rankings do not reflect the last match of the day (We won that match which propelled us to the 7th seed after the recalculation).

Nuttyman54
03-16-2010, 06:31 PM
At the WPI regional, I know for a fact that no teams received a red card, and all teams were inspected before the first match. The rankings posted on the website are the incorrect rankings. My concern was, after seeing the incorrect rankings posted on the site, if other regionals have experienced problems with rankings updating slowly or not in times.

I did not know about the red cards removing a match, but looking at most of the regional results, I find it hard to believe that most regionals had as many red cards as there are missing matches. A lot of week 1 results show the "low match" symptom, which was before the rule update which required you to be inspected to receive points for the match.

For the record, I am not trying to imply that all of the events that are showing less matches for some teams had the incorrect top 8. Obviously the WPI regional fixed the problem, but the wrong rankings still posted on the website. I am, however, trying to ascertain if this is was an isolated incident at WPI, or if it's a problem at multiple regionals.