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View Full Version : Team Kika Mana 368 1.20 sec minibot


TKM.368
04-24-2011, 11:56 AM
Hey folks - we'll see you on Curie later this week !!

Mahalo to 987 for the photoresistor idea and 233 for the ramp idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmT9nTWqDOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfvE1Me5dI8

IBdrummer
04-24-2011, 12:09 PM
That is pretty fast...but I get the feeling these 100th of a second times are getting a bit crazy in the minibot arms race.

Not saying that your minibot doesn't get up in 1.20 s, but I'm interested to see if they hold up on the field. That goes both ways though, I'm thinking its a 1.2 +- .05ish in the accuracy range, but I guess we'll see if two really fast minibots go against each other.

TKM.368
04-24-2011, 12:22 PM
That is pretty fast...but I get the feeling these 100th of a second times are getting a bit crazy in the minibot arms race.

Aye, well, put another way then it's 36 frames when recorded at 30 frames per second.

Yes, the arms race is definitely heating up! Good luck to all!

jspatz1
04-24-2011, 12:28 PM
At the risk of saying it out loud and then having someone beat it, 1.2s is beginning to have the look of a theoretical limit for the tetrix motors and battery.

IBdrummer
04-24-2011, 12:54 PM
Aye, well, put another way then it's 36 frames when recorded at 30 frames per second.

Yes, the arms race is definitely heating up! Good luck to all!

Then +-.02 error? Either way at that point I'm pretty sure battery life and various other factors will come into it more than anything else come competition time.

I'm really hoping there are a lot of opportunities for the fastest minibots to race in St Louis. As long as those pressure senors at the top work well, it'll make the end game really interesting.

Norman J
04-24-2011, 12:59 PM
At the risk of saying it out loud and then having someone beat it, 1.2s is beginning to have the look of a theoretical limit for the tetrix motors and battery.

Haven't timed it myself with a high-speed camera or anything, but I think 1114's minibot from Waterloo was near 1 sec.

The Lucas
04-24-2011, 02:07 PM
Haven't timed it myself with a high-speed camera or anything, but I think 1114's minibot from Waterloo was near 1 sec.

Using this vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ1Op8XLsao) and going frame by frame, I got 1.3 sec (39 frames). That's just one match (lights were not even on but you can see it hit the top) not a full study.

Good job, Kika Mana! I am sure I will get a chance to see that amazing minibot since we will probably be pit neighbors. From what I've seen you already had the fastest (competition) mini bot in the Curie division from your times in the the Hawaii regional, and you just shaved a tenth off!

Norman J
04-24-2011, 02:16 PM
Using this vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ1Op8XLsao) and going frame by frame, I got 1.3 sec (39 frames). That's just one match (lights were not even on but you can see it hit the top) not a full study.

My bad. I must have been so awed at their tube-scoring I lost the ability to keep track of time. Just out of curiosity, did you count from the color change or the beginning of minibot movement?

Mark Sheridan
04-24-2011, 02:19 PM
Then +-.02 error? Either way at that point I'm pretty sure battery life and various other factors will come into it more than anything else come competition time.

I agree, we were testing our minibot this weekend, we started out with a partially drained battery that was cold. We then charged it a immediately tested after it was done, the battery was pretty warm and we had a slower time, roughly .2-.3 seconds slower. We all remembered that a hotter the battery, lower its power output. We try to let our batteries cool, even for the hostbot batteries. Sometimes though, we forget.:D

Cool minibot by the way. Can you explain the photo-resister?

Norman J
04-24-2011, 02:47 PM
Cool minibot by the way. Can you explain the photo-resister?

Not from 368, but I imagine it detects the color change of the tower to trigger the launch with the photo-resistor. It's visible in the video as the black object extending out to the base of the tower.

The Lucas
04-24-2011, 02:59 PM
My bad. I must have been so awed at their tube-scoring I lost the ability to keep track of time. Just out of curiosity, did you count from the color change or the beginning of minibot movement?

Minibot movement, as soon as I see the minibot move I go back a frame and that is the start point. Color change would vary too much from match to match.

jspatz1
04-24-2011, 06:46 PM
I agree, we were testing our minibot this weekend, we started out with a partially drained battery that was cold. We then charged it a immediately tested after it was done, the battery was pretty warm and we had a slower time, roughly .2-.3 seconds slower. We all remembered that a hotter the battery, lower its power output. We try to let our batteries cool, even for the hostbot batteries. Sometimes though, we forget.:D

I can see it now, a mini-fridge in every pit.

Hjelstrom
04-24-2011, 08:22 PM
Hey folks - we'll see you on Curie later this week !!

Mahalo to 987 for the photoresistor idea and 233 for the ramp idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmT9nTWqDOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfvE1Me5dI8

Wow, that is an awesome minibot and deployment system!

crazyStone
04-24-2011, 09:52 PM
In theory if you create small diameter shafts as rollers, you could, (not saying we have, because we didn't) gear the textrix motors up to 14,000 or 20,000 rpms, and given that the shaft size isn't so large that it burns out the motors you could theorticallly be looking at a .5-.7 second ascent. Now if only I had thought about it a few weeks ago, but oh well we shall be satisifed with our 1.4 second deploy and climb good luck to you all at st. louis.

The Lucas
04-24-2011, 10:17 PM
I can see it now, a mini-fridge in every pit.

No, a dry ice box would be way cooler :cool:
It would be awesome to walk out to on the field, pull the minibot out of cooler with fog flowing all around (smoke machine :D )and load it into the robot.

The minibot kids really wanted to do this but of course it is an unnecessary frostbite hazard::safety::

dman14
04-24-2011, 10:22 PM
In theory if you create small diameter shafts as rollers, you could, (not saying we have, because we didn't) gear the textrix motors up to 14,000 or 20,000 rpms, and given that the shaft size isn't so large that it burns out the motors you could theorticallly be looking at a .5-.7 second ascent. Now if only I had thought about it a few weeks ago, but oh well we shall be satisifed with our 1.4 second deploy and climb good luck to you all at st. louis.

Take a look at the wattage (joules per second) of your motors, and at the required energy (joules) to climb the tower (Mass x Distance x Force of Gravity) and the theoretical best climb time is somewhere in the range of 1 - 1.5 seconds, smaller shafts help to a point, but then you begin to go slower due to less power. Theres a couple of threads that explain it better than myself if you take a look.

If only a .5 second climb time were possible :yikes:

Jaxom
04-24-2011, 11:20 PM
It would be awesome to walk out to on the field, pull the minibot out of cooler with fog flowing all around (smoke machine :D )and load it into the robot.

That would be beyond awesome, but it doesn't fit with "Logomotion". Hold that thought for next year's "Smoke on the Water" theme.

Alan Ing
04-24-2011, 11:58 PM
Hi All,

Just a small correction to our first post, we are actually using a RGB color sensor instead of a photoresistor and are looking for the final change from blinking yellow to solid Red or Blue. If anyone is curious, one of our team members can probably answer questions, as I am the mechanical guy. As Osa mentioned, thank you Team 987 for the inspiration to try and automate our deployment its the basically the same idea, but a slightly different path.

The 1.2 seconds is from the moment we release the minibot, which includes both deployment and time on the pole. We are using video to measure the time and get about 36 frames consistently with fully charged batteries. On occasion, we are able to get 35 frames, but its safer to go with the higher figure.

233, your recent autonomous video left us speechless! We originally ruled out a ramp deployment, but after watching the webcast of one of your matches changed our minds and thought we'd have a go at it which turned out to be a lot simpler than our original design.

We do not claim to have the fastest minibot and know that there are faster minibots/deployment systems than. With so many quick minibots, I believe that it will actually come down to who can initiate deployment the quickest without jumping the gun.

Looking forward to seeing you all!

waialua359
04-25-2011, 03:00 AM
Kudos to 368 for an awesome, reliable minibot and deployment.
The fact that you folks had it (for the most part) by week 4 at the Hawaii regional and your first tournament was impressive.

Like always, you folks always build great robots, and will again make eliminations in Curie even before CMP begins.

See you folks there!

TKM.368
04-27-2011, 06:00 AM
Thanks everyone! There was a point sometime in the last few weeks where the minibot has been worked on more than the regular bot. What a crazy long build season. But it's all good! Should also mention that we've seriously improved a lot of things since the Hawaii Regional - now able to score much much quicker and more reliably and a lot of work put into auto mode among other things.

Let the games begin!!

Hjelstrom
04-27-2011, 12:07 PM
Hi All,

Just a small correction to our first post, we are actually using a RGB color sensor instead of a photoresistor and are looking for the final change from blinking yellow to solid Red or Blue. If anyone is curious, one of our team members can probably answer questions, as I am the mechanical guy. As Osa mentioned, thank you Team 987 for the inspiration to try and automate our deployment its the basically the same idea, but a slightly different path.

The 1.2 seconds is from the moment we release the minibot, which includes both deployment and time on the pole. We are using video to measure the time and get about 36 frames consistently with fully charged batteries. On occasion, we are able to get 35 frames, but its safer to go with the higher figure.

233, your recent autonomous video left us speechless! We originally ruled out a ramp deployment, but after watching the webcast of one of your matches changed our minds and thought we'd have a go at it which turned out to be a lot simpler than our original design.

We do not claim to have the fastest minibot and know that there are faster minibots/deployment systems than. With so many quick minibots, I believe that it will actually come down to who can initiate deployment the quickest without jumping the gun.

Looking forward to seeing you all!

I'd be really interested in what sensor you used. I'm not going to St. Louis this year unfortunately or I'd just stop by the pit.
(btw, my vex team 918 picked you guys (368e) last year in the vex clean sweep championships!)