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View Full Version : QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! [10-28-01]


Ken Leung
10-29-2001, 12:23 AM
Hi all. Sorry for a late question... Here is one more toward the technical side of the competition...

QUESTION 10/28/01: Should FIRST have less strict electronics rules and allow teams build their own circuitry and electronic components? And if so, what electronics would your team like to build?

Have fun,
-Ken Leung

P.S. I am open to suggestions of any questions you want as the "QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!!"... So e-mail me at ken_leung@hotmail.com and show me what you got... ;)

Eric Tarnowski
10-29-2001, 03:15 AM
Yes, and they should also loosen the restrictions on pneumatics.

Eric

Shelley_delphi chick
10-29-2001, 03:18 PM
I think that not limiting the electronics part of the FIRST Program would be a total new exprience for the students involved. It would give them more knowledge as to what to wire and how to build things of that nature, so in my opinion yeah that would be a great idea!!

Shelley ;)

Andy Baker
10-29-2001, 04:43 PM
In most cases, it would be nice to be able to add a simple electric circuit or two on FIRST robots. We could make our own simple sensors in order to increase performance.

However, this would have to be TIGHTLY monitored and restricted.

FIRST tries to maintain fairness between teams. If they open up this area so that teams can make their own electric circuits, then the divide between the "haves" and "have nots" could get very large.

For instance, Delphi Automotive Systems has been making automotive electronics for many, many years. We sell millions of electronic gadgets to make things operate easier, safer, and better PER WEEK. Our division (Delco Electronics) alone creates around a hundred of patents per year, all concentrating on little electronic circuits.

Also, there are many other FIRST team sponsors besides Delphi who have many resources in this area. Visteon, TRW, Bosch, Motorola and DiamlerChrysler are just a few who have the ability to put traction control devices on FIRST robots, let alone other proprietary electronic devices.

Granted, exposing high-tech electical solutions to students would be inspiring... but many teams do not have the opportunity of putting flip-chips on ceramic substrates or micro-machining their own IC.

So... my vote would be yes. BUT, this would need to be done with EXTREMELY TIGHT restrictions. These restrictions would be needed in order to keep some resemblence of fairness between teams.

Andy B. who really has no business talking about sparky stuff, but still has an opinion.

David Kelly
10-29-2001, 06:45 PM
i wish FIRST would allow us to do that because our team is kinda being recogonized for it's control system innovation type stuff. we have some pretty cool new ideas that we are planning on doing for next season for the control system. if FIRST would allow us to do more with the electronics, then we would be able to do some of this stuff (sorry guys, i can't release any of it yet:p )

be prepared to see some new innovative control system and electronics of the Cyber Blue Robot next year!!!:D

Rich_550
10-29-2001, 08:46 PM
No, uh uh, no way, no how. FIRST has given all schools an equal opportunity to build a great robot that can successfully compete with any other. That's because they provide the kit to everybody. If they were to allow any fabrification of sensors and stuff, though, it would only be logical to provide a sensor construction kit as well, to level that playing field. But that won't happen...

patrickrd
10-29-2001, 09:52 PM
I had to make a simulated robot this week for one of my classes that plays capture the flag with under 4000 transistors.... maybe we could have similar rules... without transistors, there's no ability to do logic. It could be that simple... probably not... some ECE major please correct me.

Matt Leese
10-29-2001, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by patrickrd
I had to make a simulated robot this week for one of my classes that plays capture the flag with under 4000 transistors.... maybe we could have similar rules... without transistors, there's no ability to do logic. It could be that simple... probably not... some ECE major please correct me.
Well, I suppose you could use vacuum tubes or electromechanical relays but I wouldn't recommend it. As far as limiting by number of transistors, that seems a somewhat odd measurement. I would say that if you want to limit it that way, a suggested criteria would be number of IC packages and limit us to certain families of ICs (I suggest the 7400 TTL merely because that's what I'm familiar with).

Matt

Mike Rush
10-29-2001, 10:51 PM
As the leading gearhead on the team, I hear it all the time from the sparkies that there neds to be more room for electronics in FIRST. We get to play... So should they...

Mike Rush

Kyle Fenton
10-30-2001, 02:41 PM
QUESTION 10/28/01: Should FIRST have less strict electronics rules and allow teams build their own circuitry and electronic components? And if so, what electronics would your team like to build?


I say Yes for creative purposes, but no for safety reasons. I think the reason that FIRST placed electronic restrictions is so they wouldn't overload and catch on fire. I mean it is not that I don't trust other teams, but an original circuit board goes mainly untested in certain situations. If you know what you are doing, and knowing the amp and volt restrictions than I would see why not to. What can you do with an extra circuit board? Seriously. Your brain can do basically anything.

I am a strong supporter of less restrictions, more creativity. But not when it compromises safety. And this one is a coin toss.