Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

[fsracer]

The time and score were removed from the big screen with about a minute to go in the elimination matches at the Long Island SBPLI Regional.

I attended the Boston and NYC regionals and do not recall this practice.

To my knowledge, we were not informed of this change at any of the if many meetings we were required to attend.

I wonder what the fans and coaches of a major sport such as football, hockey or basketball would think if the score and time were removed from the field displays with two minutes to go.

Our team congratulates the red alliance on their regional win, but in the second match of the finals, we went to attempt a triple, but with out the time or score, we did not realize that all we had to do was keep shooting and go for the double balance( which we did repeatedly in 10 sec) for a most likely win and the championship, since we had won the first final. (We rushed the triple and were not successful).

I sincerely feel that this practice affected the outcome of the game.

I am interested in the FIRST community's comments on this issue.

Thanks all for listening to my venting.

Mr. S., Mentor 3137

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by fsracer

The time and score were removed from the big screen with about a minute to go in the elimination matches at the Long Island SBPLI Regional.

I attended the Boston and NYC regionals and do not recall this practice.

To my knowledge, we were not informed of this change at any of the if many meetings we were required to attend.

I wonder what the fans and coaches of a major sport such as football, hockey or basketball would think if the score and time were removed from the field displays with two minutes to go.

Our team congratulates the red alliance on their regional win, but in the second match of the finals, we went to attempt a triple, but with out the time or score, we did not realize that all we had to do was keep shooting and go for the double balance( which we did repeatedly in 10 sec) for a most likely win and the championship, since we had won the first final. (We rushed the triple and were not successful).

I sincerely feel that this practice affected the outcome of the game.

I am interested in the FIRST community's comments on this issue.

Thanks all for listening to my venting.

Mr. S., Mentor 3137

I can understand your frustration to a degree, but you keep referring this happening as a "practice", but from what I've heard it sounds more like a mistake than an intentional happening. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Peck]

It was happening at the Colorado regional as well. a little tip: the time is shown on clocks on both sides of the field.

[fsracer]

Originally Posted by Peck

It was happening at the Colorado regional as well. a little tip: the time is shown on clocks on both sides of the field.

As per the operator of team 3137, the clock across the field was stuck at 15 seconds during the match.

[PayneTrain]

The timer isn't static like the numbers... how does that confuse people?

I know that if I lost score during a match, I would probably go insane. Lots of pressure on the field, and I consider the scoreboard to be my other pair of eyes. How is losing score not considered an FMS fault requiring a match reset?

Also, why not indicate score underneath the timer box on the field in the future? You can't lose that.

[pathew100]

My interpretation as a scorekeeper is that the GDC intended to have real-time scoring. Thus this is the way the scoring system was designed.

This year's game is basketball. At a "human" basketball game, you know what the score is at all times. I believe that this is also the intent of Rebound Rumble.

The "match result" screen is really a redundant holdover from the games where scores and penalties had to be added manually after the end of the match. You still get the crowd "pop" when the screen goes up, but the results are already known by then.

[nukemknight]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Also, why not indicate score underneath the timer box on the field in the future? You can't lose that.

Visibility is the main concern here. Not visibility to the drive teams looking at it, but field visibility from whoever has to stand behind it. The field timers are normally positioned in the human player station. Should the human player(s) have to move/lean to see around a display dangling right in an average height student's line of sight?

The current team number and timer displays have been around for a while. I wouldn't expect a change anytime soon.

[Peck]

Originally Posted by nukemknight

Visibility is the main concern here. Not visibility to the drive teams looking at it, but field visibility from whoever has to stand behind it. The field timers are normally positioned in the human player station. Should the human player(s) have to move/lean to see around a display dangling right in an average height student's line of sight?

The current team number and timer displays have been around for a while. I wouldn't expect a change anytime soon.

3 ways to fix that issue:
1: make em smaller
2: bigger human player station
3: If game desine allows, put a "floating" box above the feild

[DjScribbles]

As I suggested earlier, put the score on the driver station, and have it published by the field management system.

I hadn't thought about the effect on the human player of adding another display for the score by the clock, but I'm sure this could be mitigated by creative positioning. It would definately make the clock/score displays stand out from team numbers better when there are two displays there.

Either way, the use of the big screen to get the score is really not ideal anyway, because no venue is the same. Putting it with the clock as part of the field and/or on the DS would give each venue more flexibility with their big-screen placement.

[Siri]

I think there might be room to just move it over (depending on the divisions of the alliance station). That might minimize the mounting issues and number of new components. Maybe I'm older than I think I am, but smaller (especially 1/2 size) and I'd start to have problems reading it.

[DjScribbles]

Also as a note, you would really only need one extra display next-to/below the clock which tells the team how many points they are ahead/behind by (ex +10 or -12), much quicker to read that way.

[SoMe_DuDe904]

Response from FIRST.

"Removal of Time/Score bar during match play has never been the recommended procedure at an FRC event.

The policy: Time/Score bar should not be removed until the match is over. Period. Removal is not an acceptable practice at any FIRST Regional or District event.

During Qualification Matches the Time/Score bar can stay projected and segue directly into Official Score posting, since the real-time scoring has proven to work well and is quick and efficient.

During Elimination Matches, the Time/Score bar can be removed after the match is over, to allow for Head Ref verification and to build anticipation/excitement. However, as soon as the score has been verified by the Head Ref and committed by the scorer, the Official Score should be posted as quickly as possible and in tandem with the Game Announcer who will simultaneously announce the score. It is not OK to delay Official Score posting. We want to post the score as soon as it is official."

Hope this helps.
Thanks!

NATE

[Storm Bissar]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

The timer isn't static like the numbers... how does that confuse people?

I know that if I lost score during a match, I would probably go insane. Lots of pressure on the field, and I consider the scoreboard to be my other pair of eyes. How is losing score not considered an FMS fault requiring a match reset?

Also, why not indicate score underneath the timer box on the field in the future? You can't lose that.

Im the operator from 3137, and I was watching the time throughout the day, and the timer worked fine, then during the 2nd match of the finals, the timer across from me by the baskets said 15 seconds for the entire match. Then with about 70 seconds left, the score and time just dissapeared from the big screen.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Storm Bissar

...the timer across from me by the baskets said 15 seconds for the entire match.

I would consider the failure of the clock to display the correct time a field fault and sufficient reason to sound the foghorn.

[Storm Bissar]

Ive watched some videos, i see that the score and time were on the big screen untill 45 seconds before the end of the game, still too early to take it down, my mistake on that part, but there was still no timer change on the timer across from me, or, from what i could tell from a video that a team member took, any change on the timer on my side.