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Unread 04-13-2012, 09:49 PM
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Hybrid/Autonomous Buzzer Shots

I had a question for all of you out there regarding the point values for "buzzer" hybrid shots. What i'm referring to is when a ball that is shot while in hybrid mode does not reach the scoring ticker under the net until after the 15 seconds are up. Being that we like to shoot an extra two balls off of the co-op bridge, this is a problem we come across pretty often. What has the ruling for this been at other events? Does it stand at 3 points or is it adjusted to the full 6 points?
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Unread 04-13-2012, 09:51 PM
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Re: Hybrid/Autonomous Buzzer Shots

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalLuke67 View Post
I had a question for all of you out there regarding the point values for "buzzer" hybrid shots. What i'm referring to is when a ball that is shot while in hybrid mode does not reach the scoring ticker under the net until after the 15 seconds are up. Being that we like to shoot an extra two balls off of the co-op bridge, this is a problem we come across pretty often. What has the ruling for this been at other events? Does it stand at 3 points or is it adjusted to the full 6 points?
The rules say that it must pass through the hoop during the hybrid period - it does not matter when it was shot or when it passes the sensor. I have seen a couple instances of points being added after the fact.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 09:52 PM
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Re: Hybrid/Autonomous Buzzer Shots

Directly from Q&A:
Q. If a robot releases a ball prior to the timer hitting zero during the hybrid period, but it completely passes through the top hoop after the timer hits zero, will this ball be worth 3 or 6 points. What is the determining factor? Time of: release, passing through the hoop, passing by the sensors? FRC1114 2012-02-29
A. Per Rule [G38], the Basketballs are scored as they pass through the Hoop. So, if a Basketball shot during the Hybrid Period passes through the Hoop before the Hybrid Period ends, it will earn the Hybrid bonus of Rule [G39]. If it passes through the Hoop after Hybrid Period ends, it will not earn the Hybrid bonus.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 09:52 PM
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Re: Hybrid/Autonomous Buzzer Shots

Rule check time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by G38
[G38]
Alliances will be immediately awarded points for each Basketball that passes completely through their Hoops
Quote:
Originally Posted by G39
[G39]
During Hybrid, an additional 3 point bonus will be added for each Basketball that passes completely through any Hoop.

From Q&A:
Quote:
Q. If a robot releases a ball prior to the timer hitting zero during the hybrid period, but it completely passes through the top hoop after the timer hits zero, will this ball be worth 3 or 6 points. What is the determining factor? Time of: release, passing through the hoop, passing by the sensors?

A. Per Rule [G38], the Basketballs are scored as they pass through the Hoop. So, if a Basketball shot during the Hybrid Period passes through the Hoop before the Hybrid Period ends, it will earn the Hybrid bonus of Rule [G39]. If it passes through the Hoop after Hybrid Period ends, it will not earn the Hybrid bonus.

Throughout the season, if a ball enters the hoop (it doesn't matter when it triggers the sensor) during the hybrid period, it will receive the hybrid bonus. If the automated scoring can't to this, the referees have added in the extra points manually.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 09:54 PM
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Re: Hybrid/Autonomous Buzzer Shots

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Originally Posted by bduddy View Post
The rules say that it must pass through the hoop during the hybrid period - it does not matter when it was shot or when it passes the sensor. I have seen a couple instances of points being added after the fact.
But that addition has been made if balls get jammed in the net and should pass through in hybrid but don't until the volunteer dislodges them in teleop. I was watching 67's matches today and the calls on the shots where absolutely right, a lot of the time, the coop balls were scored in teleop but were shot in hybrid which is 3 points per ball.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 09:56 PM
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Re: Hybrid/Autonomous Buzzer Shots

Thanks for all the rules guys! guess i didn't look hard in the right places for official ruling. May be worth having a short talk with some of the MSC judges in the morning, i believe some teams may be being shorted.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 10:02 PM
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Re: Hybrid/Autonomous Buzzer Shots

Quote:
Originally Posted by jblay View Post
But that addition has been made if balls get jammed in the net and should pass through in hybrid but don't until the volunteer dislodges them in teleop. I was watching 67's matches today and the calls on the shots where absolutely right, a lot of the time, the coop balls were scored in teleop but were shot in hybrid which is 3 points per ball.
Umm... what? For one thing, I'm pretty sure it's impossible for a ball to get stuck without passing through the hoop (which is not the same thing as the net!). And it doesn't matter when they were shot, but if they passed through the hoop during hybrid, it should be 4-6 points no matter when they were scored.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 10:14 PM
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Re: Hybrid/Autonomous Buzzer Shots

Quote:
Originally Posted by bduddy View Post
Umm... what? For one thing, I'm pretty sure it's impossible for a ball to get stuck without passing through the hoop (which is not the same thing as the net!). And it doesn't matter when they were shot, but if they passed through the hoop during hybrid, it should be 4-6 points no matter when they were scored.
That is exactly what I am saying. The ball is counted as 3 points when it passes through the sensor in teleop but it goes through the hoop in hybrid which is why the addition is made.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 10:22 PM
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Re: Hybrid/Autonomous Buzzer Shots

Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalLuke67 View Post
Thanks for all the rules guys! guess i didn't look hard in the right places for official ruling. May be worth having a short talk with some of the MSC judges in the morning, i believe some teams may be being shorted.
Luke,

We (drive team) may have a short discussion with the head ref tomorrow morning, after reading through the rule quoted above.

I doubt that anything gets changed for this weekend, but atleast we can have an open discussion about it.

-Adam
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Unread 04-13-2012, 10:48 PM
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Re: Hybrid/Autonomous Buzzer Shots

The refs were told to not manually adjust the scores. There is supposed to be a delay in the software that counts the balls as scored in hybrid even after it has ended.

I noticed a lot of times today that this wasn't happening in Michigan. I suggest checking with the FTA as well as the head ref.
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Unread 04-13-2012, 11:29 PM
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Re: Hybrid/Autonomous Buzzer Shots

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndySam View Post
The refs were told to not manually adjust the scores. There is supposed to be a delay in the software that counts the balls as scored in hybrid even after it has ended.

I noticed a lot of times today that this wasn't happening in Michigan. I suggest checking with the FTA as well as the head ref.
Not correctly scoring "late hybrid shots" was also a feature of the North Carolina Regional last weekend. We never spoke to the head referee about it, but our team and a couple others also shot balls right near the end of the hybrid which often passed through the hoop during hybrid, but were scored as 3-pointers by the automatic scoring system when the balls did not pass through the sensors until after teleop had started.
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