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Unread 07-12-2012, 01:25 PM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominator1619 View Post
The rs-550's we were having issues with we're run through a 64:1 reduction gearbox in our conveyor system. There was little compression on the balls moving through the system. To be honest, the only two pieces of electrical equipment we haven't had problems with are the CIM's and the victors (that includes burning up 3 cRio's and 4 PDB's). We have consistently had electrical problems ever since we left the old ifi system. Maybe we've just had a run of bad luck. Regardless of those issues, we more than likely will be finding a use for those little rs-550's in the up coming season as well
Our intake conveyor probably had more compression than yours (as it was way too much compression) with a ratio of 14.4:1 and a 1.75" pitch diameter pulley. No issues all season with the 550's on that. As suggested by others it was friction from another source.
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Unread 07-12-2012, 01:26 PM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdeaver View Post
The BB planetary gear boxes are designed to come in at a price we can afford. Precision planetary gear boxes in the size to match the 5oo series motors are very expensive. Our team has not been able to find anything that we could afford that is better than the Banes Bot solution. So we love them and hate them.
I've seen them, but they aren't terribly common as it's odd to spend $400 on a gearbox for a $2 motor. If you need a gearbox of that quality, you should probably also use a different motor.
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Unread 07-13-2012, 01:08 AM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebarker View Post
Since we are talking about planetaries that mate to 550s, does anyone have a list of suppliers that provide high quality planetaries that can mate to the 300/500/700 series motors. We need a list, for other reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdeaver View Post
The BB planetary gear boxes are designed to come in at a price we can afford. Precision planetary gear boxes in the size to match the 5oo series motors are very expensive. Our team has not been able to find anything that we could afford that is better than the Banes Bot solution. So we love them and hate them.
A cordless drill. Most cordless drill motors are over 300W (anyone remember the drill motor we used to get in the KOP? 450W IIRC) so the transmissions are designed to take a serious beating (as long as it's not a Harbor Freight or similar brand). Nearly all have 2 or more speeds and the nicer ones have anti-backdrive (although that's usually pretty easy to disable if necessary).
Go to a pawn shop or used tool dealer and you can find them cheap. Many use motors that are larger than 700 series. Look through the vents to match the motor size to what you want to use or just just the motor that comes with the drill if it's an off season project.
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Unread 07-13-2012, 01:29 PM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

Modification to the US Digital Encoder wheel for a lower CPR count (< 100), for example 16. Even though the cRIO can handle higher frequencies, the CPR count for attempting to control a CIMSim at 2000 rpm can possibly cause cRIO issues (throughput) that can be simply avoided by having a lower CPR count.

The US Digital Encoder with a lower CPR count could then be simply added to the AndyMark CIMSim (match made in heaven?).

In the pits I saw some applications use simple bolts with one ppr gear tooth sensor to measure rpm for speed control on their shooters.
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Unread 07-14-2012, 12:01 AM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

On behalf of the Dean's List students thank you all for all your responses. With it we were able to give the KOP suppliers a better idea of what FIRST teams would like in the kits as a whole and how it can be improved. The suppliers were most appreciated of the feedback.
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Unread 07-14-2012, 04:16 PM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

Yes, I thoroughly agree with John. The ten of us might have had some of our own personal opinions, but really our goal was to get input from the FRC community, and everyone here has been extremely helpful with that. Thank you.

Even though this year's supplier summit is over, feel free to continue posting in this thread (just try and keep it as much KOP-specific as possible; discussion about part specifications, usage, etc. is great, but perhaps a bit more than what we originally intended to ask about). We actually suggested that the suppliers have someone who keeps track of Chief Delphi and/or other FIRST forums so as to better understand the needs and wants of the FRC community. And of course, next year there will be another supplier summit with ten more Dean's List Winners who will have the same responsibilities, and I'm sure they would love to have this thread grow so they and FIRST have it as a resource.

So, thank you again, and keep up the great discussion!
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Unread 07-14-2012, 04:35 PM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb) View Post
On behalf of the Dean's List students thank you all for all your responses. With it we were able to give the KOP suppliers a better idea of what FIRST teams would like in the kits as a whole and how it can be improved. The suppliers were most appreciated of the feedback.

It would be most helpful if you can post the documentation which you presented to the suppliers. Not that I don't trust the 10 of you, its just that I would like to see the documented suggestions that were presented so that I can compare it to any changes that are made in the kit next season. This helps us determine how the feedback from the community is actually delivered and received.

Thanks,
Akash rastogi
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Unread 07-14-2012, 04:46 PM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post
It would be most helpful if you can post the documentation which you presented to the suppliers. Not that I don't trust the 10 of you, its just that I would like to see the documented suggestions that were presented so that I can compare it to any changes that are made in the kit next season. This helps us determine how the feedback from the community is actually delivered and received.
Yes, that does make sense. Unfortunately we can't be of too much help right this second, since the format was that of a Q&A panel rather than a formal presentation, so we don't have an official document to post. However, we did go through this thread the night before and write notes so we could cover the majority of the suggestions here in some fashion during the Q&A. If you would like, we can go back through those notes and supplement with our memories so you have some idea of what went on during the panel.

Also I'm under the impression - but I may be mistaken - that there was someone from FIRST acting as a secretary, so we could ask if they have official records (and if they would allow us to see them and relay some portion of them to the community).
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Unread 07-14-2012, 06:19 PM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina Dimitrov View Post
Yes, that does make sense. Unfortunately we can't be of too much help right this second, since the format was that of a Q&A panel rather than a formal presentation, so we don't have an official document to post. However, we did go through this thread the night before and write notes so we could cover the majority of the suggestions here in some fashion during the Q&A. If you would like, we can go back through those notes and supplement with our memories so you have some idea of what went on during the panel.

Also I'm under the impression - but I may be mistaken - that there was someone from FIRST acting as a secretary, so we could ask if they have official records (and if they would allow us to see them and relay some portion of them to the community).
Yes, any documentation you have of suggestions that were made should be posted publicly, if you have it. For the future, I suggest that the Dean's List students be required to have documentation ready, aside from general notes, if they plan to share suggestions made by the FIRST community at large and on Chief Delphi to the KoP suppliers. It would be a way to make sure all suggestions are at least documented and presented for consideration. As we all know, memory is not always the greatest.
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Unread 07-15-2012, 06:12 AM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

I would like to see some alternative battery options available, even if they aren't in the KoP itself. National Battery and Sigma both make equivalent 12V lead acid batteries, for about $35. MK and Genesis are at least $55. This helps when you need ~6 batteries per competition as we did.
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Unread 07-16-2012, 11:29 AM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

I followed this thread until Wednesday and then attended the Supplier's Summit Thursday/Friday. I think the Dean's List students did a good job of representing/summarizing the requests of the community. There were a lot of great suggestions made for making the KOP more beneficial for the teams and the suppliers. I know AndyMark will be looking into some of the ideas shared over the weekend.

Great job Dean's List Students!
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Unread 07-16-2012, 12:33 PM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

Having read through the Einstein report and thinking about it... new Radios, and a 2-conductor, brightly colored wire to power them. The idea behind the wire is to provide one that would stand out from the rest of the robot's wiring, so it's easy to trace where it plugs in and hopefully help catch cases where it's wired to an unregulated slot on the DSC.

Please note that I'm trying not to talk about the report here (there's a thread for that), simply parts suggestions that stem from it.
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Unread 09-08-2012, 04:45 PM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

Hey everyone, sorry for the delayed reply, but the discussion about the FIRST blog regarding the KOP evolution reminded me to post this. Below is a summary of what we as Dean's List Winners did during the KOP supplier summit meeting, just so you have an idea of what happened and what impact it may have had:

The format of the meeting was a Q&A where the suppliers would ask us questions about the kit and the 10 Dean’s List Winners would provide answers. The main topic of this meeting was more the relationship between suppliers and FRC teams, with the KOP being a specific subcomponent. We discussed how suppliers can improve their interface with FRC teams in general, such as through their websites and documentation of parts. Several suppliers of some parts that were asked for were not present, so we focused mainly on giving the present suppliers input about how they could improve their companies’ input into the kit.

Items that were directly asked for:

Better pwm cables
Wago tools
More batteries
Wire in standard gauges
More victors/electronics in general
FIRST marketing material (we asked for this after the meeting somewhat informally since the suppliers are not really responsible for this)
More game pieces
Stuff for bumpers

Main topics of discussion:

Improve companies’ websites - A large portion of our conversation dealt with improving how sponsors educated us on their products. We said we would like to see more FIRST specific sections of companies websites where finding useful products and information about said products would be easier, there was talk of locating this in a central hub like a KOP website, and possibly a mobile app as well. We asked for easier access to engineering documentation about how parts should be used and the physics/math of using them. Including QR codes on each item also came up in the discussion.

Provide vouchers instead of parts in some cases, especially for veteran teams.

Bumpers and bumper rules - FIRST had also noticed that bumpers this past season posed a significant issue when teams were being inspected, and tells us they are reevaluating how bumper rules will work and looking at simplifying the process. We did suggest perhaps including bumper materials in the KOP.
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Unread 09-08-2012, 05:25 PM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

I want to see Hot Glue, hot glue gun, duct tape, and the globe motor.
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Unread 09-08-2012, 06:12 PM
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Re: What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

After seeing the new KOP PDV from AndyMark I would like to thank the Dean's students because whatever they did seems to be working out pretty great for the rest of us
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