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  #211   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-27-2012, 10:15 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGoneNuts View Post
Does anyone know if in 2003, anyone actually built a stacking bot? I'm looking at video from stack attack and they're all pretty much small bots designed to just knock the wall to their side which would inevitably win the game.
YES! There were a number of stacking robots--217 being a notable member of that group for their ability to protect the stack they were building. However, the way the game ended up being played was, quite simply, knock the wall to your scoring area in automode, take out the stacks the humans left in your area during the human player mode, and park on the top of the ramp. See 60, 68, 234, 980.

330 built a stacking robot that could theoretically handle an infinitely high stack (though it would be rather precarious--in practice, our method could get about 8 before a collapse; in competition, we never got more than about 2 before someone knocked the stack over). However, due to the way the game actually played, the stacking arms became used primarily for causing about half the wall to come down.

There were no prohibited zones; the first zone prohibition of any form came in 2006 (no more than 2 on defense during part of the game); the first all-match prohibition came in 2011 with the lanes. (Protected zones, where if you were in them you couldn't be hit, came a year earlier; see 2005's loading zone Kiss of Death 30-point penalty.)

In retrospect, the reason for the stack attack in Stack Attack was that 1) it was a whole lot easier to knock down a stack than to build it up, 2) the top of the ramp was worth a lot of points in comparison to a stack, 3) the stack height ruling just kept on changing, so nobody really knew how tall a stack actually was until some time into build, and 4) the bins broke so often that keeping enough around to build a stack in practice was pretty hard .
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Unread 07-27-2012, 10:31 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

I think correcting the awful ranking and elimination system from 2003 would be the largest worry to correct for another stacking game. I wasn't around then, but I've looked back here on CD and heard from others that it was ridiculous.

After that, I think we will see another game with an absolute maximum score (i.e. the game pieces can only be scored once, then remain in the "scoring position"). I would rather play a recycling game like 2012, '10, '08 or '06, but it seems that 2013 being such a game would be just a bit "out of order."

My guess, which seems to be less common than some others, is the return of fixed, freestanding goals similar to the 2005 setup, but tetras aren't on the menu.
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Unread 07-28-2012, 01:03 AM
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Re: 2013 Game?

Rebound rumble was the first game in what may become a FIRST tradition of really spectator-friendly games. We don't need complicated scoring and viewing accompanying complicated engineering challenges. Which year brought in more publicity for FIRST - robots playing basketball, or robots hanging tubes on a wall?
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Unread 07-28-2012, 01:04 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

I think we'll probably see another lower scoring game like 2010, minus the sports themes of course, probably something luck related (at least for the name) since it's 2013.
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Unread 07-30-2012, 09:41 AM
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Re: 2013 Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigakaiser View Post
Rebound rumble was the first game in what may become a FIRST tradition of really spectator-friendly games. We don't need complicated scoring and viewing accompanying complicated engineering challenges. Which year brought in more publicity for FIRST - robots playing basketball, or robots hanging tubes on a wall?
I thought Breakaway was pretty spectator friendly. Soccer with robots, and you can hang from a bar for extra points. Unless you're implying that soccer is boring, which I would also disagree with.
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Unread 07-30-2012, 01:16 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

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Originally Posted by PVCpirate View Post
I thought Breakaway was pretty spectator friendly. Soccer with robots, and you can hang from a bar for extra points. Unless you're implying that soccer is boring, which I would also disagree with.
Several of my non-FIRST friends, even ones who love watching and/or playing soccer, thought Breakaway was unbearably slow. (I suspect it was robots' inability to execute awesome passing plays?) I think Rebound Rumble had a lot more movement and seemed more engaging to the crowds even at non-Championship levels.
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Unread 07-30-2012, 01:25 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

Its all about a water game guys. (Not really) I think it will be some sort of race like Overdrive but with a different goal needed to win.
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Unread 07-30-2012, 01:50 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

If we are looking for spectator-friendly, people really need to talk less before Einstein. I saw multiple randoms come by with their kids to see the finals. After loads of important people gave boring speaches for 3 hours, they left without seeing a single match.
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Unread 07-30-2012, 01:59 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

The "spectator friendly" thing also translated better to Local news as "RObots shooting hoops" is a lot more reader friendly than "Robots picking up innertubes off the floor and hanging them on posts 3-6-and-9 feet off the ground"

I think well see less obstacles...or I hope we do - lower tier teams who couldnt pull down the bridge were next to useless this year and just ate up space. So Id like to go back to a somewhat flat field.

I'd personally like to see a stacking game because its been so long since the last true one.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 03:56 AM
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Re: 2013 Game?

Something that has lots of degrees of difficulty would be nice. Its already been said in various places, but defensive robots were actually quite hard to do due to the bridge/barrier. Overdrive, correct me if I'm wrong, allowed teams to simply build a driving base and still score points for their alliance. Something that is easy for rookies to do, but has more complex elements for the veteran teams to tackle =)
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Unread 07-31-2012, 10:18 AM
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Re: 2013 Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siri View Post
Several of my non-FIRST friends, even ones who love watching and/or playing soccer, thought Breakaway was unbearably slow. (I suspect it was robots' inability to execute awesome passing plays?) I think Rebound Rumble had a lot more movement and seemed more engaging to the crowds even at non-Championship levels.
I think spectator friendly also relates to how easily the crowd can pick up on the game and get excited. Obviously, Breakaway was easy to explain (Ball and Balance), and the same can be said for Logomotion (Hang and Race) and Breakaway (Soccer and Up).

This has been a goal that has been explicitly recognized by FIRST (I believe), and so it should be less than a surprise when we see a game that follow these trends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiasam111 View Post
Something that has lots of degrees of difficulty would be nice. Its already been said in various places, but defensive robots were actually quite hard to do due to the bridge/barrier. Overdrive, correct me if I'm wrong, allowed teams to simply build a driving base and still score points for their alliance. Something that is easy for rookies to do, but has more complex elements for the veteran teams to tackle =)
Your point actually strikes at a more fundamental level of creating of creating these games. The pertinent one being how do you balance a challenge so that the veterans are challenged while the rookies can still field a competetive drive base.

I agree that this game naturally discouraged drive bases, perhaps an unfortunate oversight. However, can we afford to have games that have such an elementary level while the best continue to get better?

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Unread 08-03-2012, 03:30 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

Anyone remember these?

3"-4" pvc stacked vertically to make a platform for a robot to drive onto?
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Unread 08-03-2012, 04:01 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

I would love to play a game with rubber traffic cones(Maybe similar to triple play?). Then make it so that you can collect more than one at a time and you got one heck of an interesting challenge for teams.
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Unread 08-03-2012, 04:25 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugurussa675 View Post
Its all about a water game guys. (Not really) I think it will be some sort of race like Overdrive but with a different goal needed to win.
Well remember 2013 is an odd year and they tend to stray away from sports related games in the odd years. Most likely it will be something completely and utterly crazy.
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Unread 08-04-2012, 03:05 PM
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Re: 2013 Game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siri View Post
Several of my non-FIRST friends, even ones who love watching and/or playing soccer, thought Breakaway was unbearably slow. (I suspect it was robots' inability to execute awesome passing plays?) I think Rebound Rumble had a lot more movement and seemed more engaging to the crowds even at non-Championship levels.
I was talking about what ttldomination mentioned, where spectator friendly meant easy to understand what the heck is going on. The excitement of Breakaway(or of soccer, for that matter) is debatable, but I don't think you can argue its simplicity.
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