2012 KOP wheels

[IndySam]

We designed our robot this year to use pneumatic wheels but after practicing a bit we just didn't like the amount of bounce we got with our short wheelbase and these wheels.

Taking a queue from our good friends and practice partners 1024 we switched to this years KOP wheels and were absolutely thrilled with their performance throughout the season.

They were grippy as heck, could climb the bridges with ease and nobody could push us around. Even after 100's of practice hours the wheels on our practice bot performed just as well as when they were brand new.

I think AndyMark and FIRST really hit it out of the ballpark with these wheels and at only $10 a piece they were a steal.

I hope they come back next year and I really hope they make them with clear polycarbonate instead of black.

Anyone else use these wheels this year?

[MattC9]

We did not use the wheels this year but we will be using them on an off season robot, I am soooooo glad that the kit came with 6 of them it really gives each team a very good start to a drive base. I want to do a test with the 2012 KoP wheels vs. Plaction wedgetop and roughtop.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by IndySam

We designed our robot this year to use pneumatic wheels but after practicing a bit we just didn't like the amount of bounce we got with our short wheelbase and these wheels.

Taking a queue from our good friends and practice partners 1024 we switched to this years KOP wheels and were absolutely thrilled with their performance throughout the season.

They were grippy as heck, could climb the bridges with ease and nobody could push us around. Even after 100's of practice hours the wheels on our practice bot performed just as well as when they were brand new.

I think AndyMark and FIRST really hit it out of the ballpark with these wheels and at only $10 a piece they were a steal.

I hope they come back next year and I really hope they make them with clear polycarbonate instead of black.

Anyone else use these wheels this year?

Excuse a question from someone "out of the game" but...
What is the coefficient of friction between these wheels and carpet?

I'm interested in one specific test. Someone with 100% of their drive weight on these wheels, put their robot on a ramp of carpet, and tilt it until it slips.

Anyone do this test?

-John

[apalrd]

Nothing quantitative, but I have some purely subjective data:

-On carpet, there somewhere between the gray KOP wheels and Roughtop (greater than gray KOP wheel, less than roughtop).
-On polycarbonate/HDPE (bridge and key), they're slightly less sticky than the gray KOP or Colson wheels, not much. Much better than roughtop on these surfaces.

To answer OP, we ran these wheels as the front (6" dia) wheels at Troy. We had different wheels (2" wide 6" dia IFI with black roughtop) at Kettering, and yet another set of wheels (2008 gray KOP wheels with the edges rounded on a lathe to slightly improve turning performance) at States and beyond. They're light (compared to IFI wheels), have slightly better traction than the gray KOP wheels, and have significantly better polycarbonate/HDPE traction than roughtop.

[Billfred]

After bearing witness to the ridonkulously-good Swamp Thing machine of 2005, 1293 first used roughtop in 2006 on the center of a 6WD setup. It proved to be the sole highlight of that robot.

I took that knowledge with me over to 1618, where it was really the highlight of their 2007 machine. (Our driver combined with help from The Algorithm to take it even higher.) The traction proved useful in 2008, especially when we had to shut down 1629 ourselves.

2009 doesn't count for either 1618's or 2815's robots (the former's last).

Now fully with 2815, and under the leadership of Stephen Kowski, we kinda went nuts on drive that year--six motors, two speeds, plenty of overkill for the close-quarters driving of 2010 but effective enough for our collaborator 1398 to win Palmetto. 2011 was a year of restraint, using "just" four CIMs and wedgetopped kit wheels on a two-banner tear through Peachtree and Palmetto.

So yeah, I'm a fan of roughtop and wedgetop.

We saw the 2012 kit wheels and decided all that wasn't worth going through for the marginal extra traction. No regrets on the move--from climbing the bridges to zipping across the field, we never missed it. It would take a very specific use case for us to go back now. Great job, AndyMark!

Edit: John, AndyMark claims a CoF of 0.95-1.0. I have no reason to doubt it based off our experience.

[AllenGregoryIV]

We didn't use the kit wheels this year because we used 8in wheels. We ended up breaking 8" grey kit wheels and Plaction wheels on the barrier (after cleaning going through two regionals).

Did anyone break one of the new kit wheels?

We are thinking about going to full Colsons next year but that would be really expensive since we would need to buy all our hubs as we can't machine them ourselves. If the kit wheels worked as well everyone is saying we may second guess that decision.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

We are thinking about going to full Colsons next year but that would be really expensive since we would need to buy all our hubs as we can't machine them ourselves. If the kit wheels worked as well everyone is saying we may second guess that decision.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

Colson wheel (about $6) + WCP hub ($22) = About $28
AM Plaction wheel (about $26) = About $26

I'd go Colson if I were you. Looks like you're saving money in the long run without needing to replace wheels, and they seem just about $2 more each than plactions.

*Costs don't include shipping*

[AllenGregoryIV]

I was talking about the moving to the 2012 kit wheels. We aren't running Plaction or pre-2012 kit wheels again after having to replace so many this year. (I know it was probably a design flaw on our part. We should have done a better job to account for the impact on the barrier but I still don't like it)

[nick_sheets]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

I was talking about the moving to the 2012 kit wheels. We aren't running Plaction or pre-2012 kit wheels again after having to replace so many this year. (I know it was probably a design flaw on our part. We should have done a better job to account for the impact on the barrier but I still don't like it)

We ran the KOP wheels this year and weren't very happy with them. The older kit wheels that teams had were much nicer, I believe 2008. As a team, we switched our bot to colsons for demo's and such. The driving is much better on them and we figured if its about ~$60 or so bucks more for Colsons over KOP wheels. We'll go colson hands down.

Nick

[thefro526]

I'm a big fan of the 2012 KOP wheel. It's a nice compromise between the previous kit wheels and a roughtop treaded wheel. My former team ended up using them because of cost constraints and I can happily say that they weren't a mistake. If we were to encounter a game with similar surfaces is in the near future, I'd definitely recommend these over the 2008 KOP wheel - though on a flat carpet floor, the 2008 seems a hair more smooth.

If I remember correctly, the COF of these guys is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.0.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

Colson wheel (about $6) + WCP hub ($22) = About $28
AM Plaction wheel (about $26) = About $26

I'd go Colson if I were you. Looks like you're saving money in the long run without needing to replace wheels, and they seem just about $2 more each than plactions.

*Costs don't include shipping*

AM kit wheel = $10.00

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by nick_sheets

We ran the KOP wheels this year and weren't very happy with them. The older kit wheels that teams had were much nicer, I believe 2008. As a team, we switched our bot to colsons for demo's and such. The driving is much better on them and we figured if its about ~$60 or so bucks more for Colsons over KOP wheels. We'll go colson hands down.

Nick

Can you please expand on this? Why weren't you happy?

[bardd]

We used them as a part of a somewhat peculiar setup: we had a 8WD (all leveled together), where the two wheels (on each side) in the center are performence wheels with roughtop treads, the wheels in the back (where the CoG is) were 2012 KOP wheels and the wheels up front (which was really light) were omni wheels. Since we had higher tracktion wheels it's hard to really tell how the KOP wheels performed throughout, but when getting on the bridge, when the robot still touches the ground, the only wheels with grip are the KOP wheels and the omni wheels, for the performence wheels are in the air). We never had problems getting up the bridge, which tells me these wheels have some heavy grip (I don't believe we can hold it for the omni wheels nearly as much as for the KOP wheels).

[jb1403]

We used 6 of these this year on our six wheel direct drive tank system. They were great for bridge climbing and pushing people around. They did show some wear after 5-6 competitions, which is to be expected. My only complaint was that they were to squishy, meaning that even though we dropped our center wheel by .125 we still encountered wheel scrub. To combat this issue we just turned the front two and back two wheels down until we obtained the desired ride height. But otherwise they were great and I would definitely recommend them in the right circumstances.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

We didn't use the kit wheels this year because we used 8in wheels. We ended up breaking 8" grey kit wheels and Plaction wheels on the barrier (after cleaning going through two regionals).

Did anyone break one of the new kit wheels?

We are thinking about going to full Colsons next year but that would be really expensive since we would need to buy all our hubs as we can't machine them ourselves. If the kit wheels worked as well everyone is saying we may second guess that decision.

If you are using them in a live axle set up the hubs are trivial if you have a lathe and a broach (or can borrow them)

- A huge fan of Colson wheels