Go to Post changing some 0 to 1s was a lot lighter and cheaper than most of the clutches I found. - IKE [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Programming
CD-Events   CD-Media   CD-Spy   FRC-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-26-2012, 11:02 PM
Andrew Lawrence's Avatar
Andrew Lawrence Andrew Lawrence is offline
In Transition.
AKA: SuperNerd256
no team (Robo Rams)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,207
Andrew Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Lawrence has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Lawrence has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Andrew Lawrence
Image processing for vision tracking: blacka and white, or color?

I have seen multiple examples of vision tracking using images, and have seen it done well in both color and black and white? For what reason would one do color or black and white? Is there an advantage to either?
__________________
Team 256: 2011-2014

Championships isn't the end - it's the beginning.
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-27-2012, 07:29 AM
Greg McKaskle Greg McKaskle is offline
Registered User
no team (Team NI)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3,895
Greg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Image processing for vision tracking: blacka and white, or color?

Color takes three times the data, so black and white tends to take less memory and less time to process.

On the other hand, since we see in color, it is somewhat difficult for us to get our heads wrapped around the B&W image processing techniques. Also, if there is a uniquely colored entity in the photo, color will be an easy task whereas black and white cannot take that approach and must be based on shape, proximity, or other artifacts.

In many of the LV FRC vision examples, both color and BW are used. The color will often be used to identify potential areas, and those areas are further processed, often in B&W, in order to rank them or disqualify them.

Greg McKaskle
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-27-2012, 12:37 PM
Brandon Zalinsky's Avatar
Brandon Zalinsky Brandon Zalinsky is offline
Champs or Bust 2014
AKA: The Mecanum Man
FRC #1058 (PVC Pirates)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: In 3467's Robot Crate
Posts: 389
Brandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud of
Send a message via Skype™ to Brandon Zalinsky
Re: Image processing for vision tracking: blacka and white, or color?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 View Post
I have seen multiple examples of vision tracking using images, and have seen it done well in both color and black and white?
I've seen many teams using full-color, high-res displays. 78 Air Strike and 341 Miss Daisy both have very good color vision tracking, just to name two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 View Post
For what reason would one do color or black and white? Is there an advantage to either?
B/W takes less processing power, and is (as I hear, I'm not a programmer) easier to code. However, even B/W maxes out the processing power of our cRIO, causing us to offload the calculations to the laptop. So, even though B/W tracking takes up less processing power, it's a disadvantage that it can't be run on the cRIO. If someone knows how to, please let 1058 know!

The other disadvantage of running black/white is a worse camera feed for the driver and operator. This doesn't matter, however, if you use two or more cameras.

Good luck!
__________________
This is our Robot. There are many like it, but this one is ours.
Measure twice, cut once, curse, buy more, and cut again.

2014- Excellence in Engineering (UNH), District Chairman's Award (NU), #8 Quarterfinalist (NECMP)
2013- Semifinalists (Battlecry@WPI) Winner as #4 AC (Mainely Spirit)
2012- Regional Chairman's (GSR), Finalists as the #11 Alliance Captain (Battlecry@WPI)
2011-Xerox Creativity Award (GSR), Semifinalists (GSR) Innovation in Control (Virginia)
2010-Champion (GSR), Undefeated (Chesapeake), Coopertition Award (Chesapeake), Quarterfinalists (Galileo) 8th AC (IRI)
2008-Undefeated (GSR), Xerox Creativity Award (GSR)
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-27-2012, 03:30 PM
Greg McKaskle Greg McKaskle is offline
Registered User
no team (Team NI)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3,895
Greg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond reputeGreg McKaskle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Image processing for vision tracking: blacka and white, or color?

Any camera connection can be B&W. The LV palette has a vi to set the camera session resolution, frame rate, and color settings. Note that the simplified dashboard VI doesn't have a parameter for that.

Greg McKaskle
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-27-2012, 05:48 PM
Tom Line's Avatar
Tom Line Tom Line is offline
Raptors can't turn doorknobs.
FRC #1718 (The Fighting Pi)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Armada, Michigan
Posts: 2,070
Tom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Image processing for vision tracking: blacka and white, or color?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flak-Bait View Post
I've seen many teams using full-color, high-res displays. 78 Air Strike and 341 Miss Daisy both have very good color vision tracking, just to name two.



B/W takes less processing power, and is (as I hear, I'm not a programmer) easier to code. However, even B/W maxes out the processing power of our cRIO, causing us to offload the calculations to the laptop. So, even though B/W tracking takes up less processing power, it's a disadvantage that it can't be run on the cRIO. If someone knows how to, please let 1058 know!

The other disadvantage of running black/white is a worse camera feed for the driver and operator. This doesn't matter, however, if you use two or more cameras.

Good luck!
The cRio was perfectly capable of doing vision processing for the game this year. You just need to remember that you only need ONE good image, and you only need to do your calculations once to know where to aim.

Trying to do real time 30 FPS calculations is un-needed.

The time to process a single color frame at medium resolution is under .25 seconds.
__________________
Team 1718 Alpha Test Results
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-11-2012, 12:20 PM
Brandon Zalinsky's Avatar
Brandon Zalinsky Brandon Zalinsky is offline
Champs or Bust 2014
AKA: The Mecanum Man
FRC #1058 (PVC Pirates)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: In 3467's Robot Crate
Posts: 389
Brandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud ofBrandon Zalinsky has much to be proud of
Send a message via Skype™ to Brandon Zalinsky
Re: Image processing for vision tracking: blacka and white, or color?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Line View Post
The cRio was perfectly capable of doing vision processing for the game this year. You just need to remember that you only need ONE good image, and you only need to do your calculations once to know where to aim.

Trying to do real time 30 FPS calculations is un-needed.

The time to process a single color frame at medium resolution is under .25 seconds.
True, I believe we had to because our shooter rattled like a sonofagun and one image wouldn't work.
__________________
This is our Robot. There are many like it, but this one is ours.
Measure twice, cut once, curse, buy more, and cut again.

2014- Excellence in Engineering (UNH), District Chairman's Award (NU), #8 Quarterfinalist (NECMP)
2013- Semifinalists (Battlecry@WPI) Winner as #4 AC (Mainely Spirit)
2012- Regional Chairman's (GSR), Finalists as the #11 Alliance Captain (Battlecry@WPI)
2011-Xerox Creativity Award (GSR), Semifinalists (GSR) Innovation in Control (Virginia)
2010-Champion (GSR), Undefeated (Chesapeake), Coopertition Award (Chesapeake), Quarterfinalists (Galileo) 8th AC (IRI)
2008-Undefeated (GSR), Xerox Creativity Award (GSR)
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-11-2012, 04:27 PM
Tom Line's Avatar
Tom Line Tom Line is offline
Raptors can't turn doorknobs.
FRC #1718 (The Fighting Pi)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Armada, Michigan
Posts: 2,070
Tom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Image processing for vision tracking: blacka and white, or color?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flak-Bait View Post
True, I believe we had to because our shooter rattled like a sonofagun and one image wouldn't work.
We had the same issue initially. We dampened the camera a bit with a different style mount and changed the location. Before that worked though, we changed over to a 3 consecutive picture analysis (three consecutive pictures had to agree on the target location to within a certain tolerance). That changed out targetting time to .75 seconds which really didn't matter much in the scheme of things.
__________________
Team 1718 Alpha Test Results
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:13 PM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi