OCCRA
Go to Post Why silence the rude ones and naysayers when you could have the students learn to deal with them? - JackG [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Events   CD-Media   CD-Spy   FRC-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 05:54 PM
copperhead47's Avatar
copperhead47 copperhead47 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Grant "gunner" T.
FRC #1647 (Lenape Regional Iron Devils)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 33
copperhead47 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to copperhead47
why I don't like this year's game

ok this is sort of a griping forum (read if you want- but if you are going to be insulted, please don't read further) for a variety of reasons this game can go wrong.
1. the "no defense" rule: how are you supposed to stop an opponent from scoring??? you let them?! i don't think so! this is going to be such a high scoring game! you think the judges wasted alot of time making decisions last year?! just wait.
2:you cannot lift your boom above 6 feet in the opponents area... how are you supposed to knock sown opponents balls at the end?! you might as well not bother trying to knock them off cuz you'll get penalized!!!!!
3: counterclockwise?? one direction?? what is this nonsense?! what happened to strategy?! they don't let us do anything now. its like communism we have to conform or die!! our drivers are gonna get dizzy just thinkin about it!!

"the game is only half stupid not fully stupid"
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 06:12 PM
bduddy bduddy is offline
Registered User
FRC #0840 (ART)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: San Bruno, CA
Posts: 745
bduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: why I don't like this year's game

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperhead47 View Post
ok this is sort of a griping forum (read if you want- but if you are going to be insulted, please don't read further) for a variety of reasons this game can go wrong.
1. the "no defense" rule: how are you supposed to stop an opponent from scoring??? you let them?! i don't think so! this is going to be such a high scoring game! you think the judges wasted alot of time making decisions last year?! just wait.
Remember: bumping and extension-extension contact are allowed, and if you can't figure out how to play defense now, you're not thinking hard enough. Besides, this is supposed to be an offensive game. Last year was very, very low scoring, in my opinion.

Quote:
2:you cannot lift your boom above 6 feet in the opponents area... how are you supposed to knock sown opponents balls at the end?! you might as well not bother trying to knock them off cuz you'll get penalized!!!!!
Psst... FIRST update...

Quote:
3: counterclockwise?? one direction?? what is this nonsense?! what happened to strategy?! they don't let us do anything now. its like communism we have to conform or die!! our drivers are gonna get dizzy just thinkin about it!!

"the game is only half stupid not fully stupid"
Umm... are you being sarcastic? Either way, this is supposed to be, essentially, a race. The whole point is to do laps, in one direction. If robots were going in the opposite direction, this year would be even lower scoring than last year, it'd ruin the whole flow of the game, and there'd be too many collisions to boot.
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 06:18 PM
ALIBI's Avatar
ALIBI ALIBI is offline
Registered User
FRC #0141
Team Role: Parent
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 271
ALIBI is a name known to allALIBI is a name known to allALIBI is a name known to allALIBI is a name known to allALIBI is a name known to allALIBI is a name known to all
Re: why I don't like this year's game

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperhead47 View Post
ok this is sort of a griping forum (read if you want- but if you are going to be insulted, please don't read further) for a variety of reasons this game can go wrong.
1. the "no defense" rule: how are you supposed to stop an opponent from scoring??? you let them?! i don't think so! this is going to be such a high scoring game! you think the judges wasted alot of time making decisions last year?! just wait.
2:you cannot lift your boom above 6 feet in the opponents area... how are you supposed to knock sown opponents balls at the end?! you might as well not bother trying to knock them off cuz you'll get penalized!!!!!
3: counterclockwise?? one direction?? what is this nonsense?! what happened to strategy?! they don't let us do anything now. its like communism we have to conform or die!! our drivers are gonna get dizzy just thinkin about it!!

"the game is only half stupid not fully stupid"

1: How about descoring from the overpass, how about herding/bulldozing opponents trackballs, it is a long ways around the track if a trackball goes into the quad behind you or in front of you

2: No longer applies, see update #1

3: It is only counter-clockwise quad to quad for the robots, not the trackballs, nor for the robots within a quad

So, don't be too down on this years game, look more for the things/strategies you can do instead of the ones you can not.

Good Luck!
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 06:20 PM
David Brinza's Avatar
David Brinza David Brinza is offline
Lead Mentor, Robot Inspector
FRC #0980 (ThunderBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 1,283
David Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond reputeDavid Brinza has a reputation beyond repute
Re: why I don't like this year's game

A good defensive strategy might be playing "keep-away" with your opponent's trackballs, especially against alliances with good hurdlers. Per <G29>, herding an opponent's trackball is allowed.

Limited driving in the opposite direction will occur (gathering trackballs, getting away from walls and corners), so don't design a robot that only drives straught and turns left!!

This will be a great game...
__________________
"There's never enough time to do it right, but always time to do it over."
2003 AZ: Semifinals, Motorola Quality; SoCal: Q-finals, Xerox Creativity; IRI: Q-finals
2004 AZ: Semifinals, GM Industrial Design; SoCal: Winners, Leadership in Controls; Championship: Galileo #2 seed, Q-finals; IRI: Champions
2005 AZ: #1 Seed, Xerox Creativity; SoCal: Finalist, RadioShack Controls; SVR: Winners, Delphi "Driving Tomorrow's Technologies"; Championship: Archimedes Semifinals; IRI: Finalist
2007 LA: Finalist; San Diego: Q-finals; CalGames: Finalist || 2008 San Diego: Q-finals; LA: Winners; CalGames: Finalist
2009 LA: Semifinals; Las Vegas: Q-finals; IRI: #1 Seed, Finalist || 2010 AZ: Motorola Quality; LA: Finalist
2011 SD: Q-finals; LA: Q-finals || 2013 LA: Xerox Creativity, WFFA, Dean's List Finalist || 2014 IE: Q-finals, LA: Finalist
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 06:25 PM
Madison's Avatar
Madison Madison is offline
Dancing through life...
FRC #0488 (Xbot)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Seattle, WA/Holbrook, NY
Posts: 5,043
Madison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond reputeMadison has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Madison
Re: why I don't like this year's game

The removal of <G36> from consideration means that there are now some additional options available for defense.

It may now be a viable strategy to remain just beyond your opponent's finish line and erect a backboard that prevents them getting their trackball to the other side of the overpass. If the rest of the track remains clear, the alliance can't justify "bumping to pass" and will be forced to maneuver around to score in a different location. A swerve drive on your machine means you could sweep back and forth and be very, very effective and preventing much scoring from taking place.
__________________
--Madison--

...down at the Ozdust!

Like a grand and miraculous spaceship, our planet has sailed through the universe of time. And for a brief moment, we have been among its many passengers.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 06:30 PM
Woodie Flowers Award
Ken Patton Ken Patton is offline
purple
FRC #0051 (Wings of Fire)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 341
Ken Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond reputeKen Patton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: why I don't like this year's game

Hey Copperhead-

Remember its a game. The rules people come up with something to challenge us, make our brains hurt, get us to work together as alliances, and we figure out how to play. Take up the challenge. Use your creativity to think up something that will make the game exciting for your team and your alliance.

Of course there's things that make the game odd. We might have ideas on how to make it better or more spectator-friendly. Post away, maybe the GDC can use some of 'em. But to just complain about it isn't fun.

I think this is a pretty interesting change from past game concepts. Who knows, maybe it'll be half-boring. But I'm looking forward to seeing some lap times. And I'm not talkin' about Daytona in February...

Ken

Last edited by Ken Patton : 01-07-2008 at 06:31 PM. Reason: corrected a mistake
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 06:32 PM
maclaren maclaren is offline
Registered User
AKA: Dexter
FRC #0997 (Spartan Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Corvallis,OR
Posts: 59
maclaren is a glorious beacon of lightmaclaren is a glorious beacon of lightmaclaren is a glorious beacon of lightmaclaren is a glorious beacon of lightmaclaren is a glorious beacon of light
Re: why I don't like this year's game

I could not agree with copperhead more.

A "passing bump" give me a break! We should reuqire the drivers to wear monicals and tap one another on the should and say,
Driver1- Pardon me chap but may I pass by you?
Driver2 - No pardon me, I will certainly clear a path for you, just one moment please.
Driver1 - Certainly, no hurry.
(not trying to make fun of british people but using a 1800's era gentlemanly conversation to ilustrate my point)

Since when is a race a game? FRC is not supposed to be nascar it's supposed to a real game with a field not a track! (not dissing nascar or racing but this is not what FIRST robotics games should be in my opinion)

Quote:
this is supposed to be an offensive game. Last year was very, very low scoring, in my opinion.
Yes many of the matches last year were very low scoring because there was a lot of defense played and many teams were not effective at scoring against the defense.

But in order to have an exciting game in my opinion you need that struggle between the defence and the offence. One team trying desperately to score and another trying euqally to stop them from scoring or to score more than them.

Don't get me wrong we will make one kick butt robot.

Anyway that is my two cents.
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 06:51 PM
meaubry meaubry is offline
Registered User
None #0047 (Chief Delphi)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1994
Location: pontiac, mi
Posts: 778
meaubry has a reputation beyond reputemeaubry has a reputation beyond reputemeaubry has a reputation beyond reputemeaubry has a reputation beyond reputemeaubry has a reputation beyond reputemeaubry has a reputation beyond reputemeaubry has a reputation beyond reputemeaubry has a reputation beyond reputemeaubry has a reputation beyond reputemeaubry has a reputation beyond reputemeaubry has a reputation beyond repute
Re: why I don't like this year's game

As far as I can tell - not a single match has been played yet.
Just a little too early for me to form as strong opinion as this person.

I like change - nothing wrong with mixing things up. Forcing folks to think a bit out of the box and shaking things up is fine with me.

I have no pre-concieved notions about what makes a game good or bad - particularly this years game. I'm sure that will be alot more obvious as we move through the season.

And ... regardless of which way it does come out - everyone may not be as enthused as others will.

So be it - life wouldn't be as interesting, if we were all of the same opinion.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 06:51 PM
Joe G.'s Avatar
Joe G. Joe G. is offline
Going full circle
AKA: Josepher
no team (Team WARP)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 1,169
Joe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Joe G.
Re: why I don't like this year's game

Quote:
1. the "no defense" rule: how are you supposed to stop an opponent from scoring??? you let them?! i don't think so! this is going to be such a high scoring game! you think the judges wasted alot of time making decisions last year?! just wait.
I found it quite disheartening last year when well designed, offensive robots, were prevented from performing their designed task by defensive robots. (no offense to defensive robots from last year) This year, there are several ways to hinder offensive robots, such as trapping a ball in a corner and descoring, but no clear way to outright shut them down. If you want to get a higher score, than come up with a way to score more effectivly.

Quote:
3: counterclockwise?? one direction?? what is this nonsense?! what happened to strategy?! they don't let us do anything now. its like communism we have to conform or die!! our drivers are gonna get dizzy just thinkin about it!!
There is a LOT more to stategy than where you drive your robot during the match. What your robot does is strategy. How your alliance partners will work together is strategy. How to get the most out of hybrid mode is strategy. Did Aim High not have strategy because you had to score on a specific side of the field? Of course not. Just because you have to be moving in a set general direction dosen't take away strategy, it adds to it, as you must creativly work around this limitation.


And also, EVERY first game improves as the season goes along. Especially after week 1, nearly everyone on these forums disliked Rack n Roll. But now, although some may not love it, no one coniders it a failure, or anything of that sort. The GDC has never failed us. Just give the game time to play out.
__________________
FIRST is not about doing what you can with what you know. It is about doing what you thought impossible, with what you were inspired to become.

2007-2010: Student, FRC 1687, Highlander Robotics
2012-2014: Technical Mentor, FRC 1687, Highlander Robotics
2015-???: Lead Mentor, Team WARP (2015 rookie)

http://wordsaboutrobots.blogspot.com/, the place where I make words about making robots. Updated 7/30.

Last edited by Joe G. : 01-07-2008 at 06:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 07:36 PM
copperhead47's Avatar
copperhead47 copperhead47 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Grant "gunner" T.
FRC #1647 (Lenape Regional Iron Devils)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 33
copperhead47 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to copperhead47
Re: why I don't like this year's game

where can i find these updates that you speak of??
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 07:39 PM
Koko Ed's Avatar
Koko Ed Koko Ed is offline
Serial Volunteer
AKA: Ed Patterson
FRC #0191 (X-Cats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Rochester,NY
Posts: 21,845
Koko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: why I don't like this year's game

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperhead47 View Post
where can i find these updates that you speak of??
http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...Update%201.pdf
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 07:44 PM
JaneYoung's Avatar
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
Onward through the fog.
FRC #0418 (LASA Robotics/Purple Haze)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 5,956
JaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond repute
Re: why I don't like this year's game

It is beneficial to make the FIRST website one of the tools you use during build season. A lot of information is there and is available to help teams.
__________________
Excellence is contagious. ~ Andy Baker, President, AndyMark, Inc. and Woodie Flowers Award 2003

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved.
~ Helen Keller
(1880-1968)
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 07:48 PM
Torboticsmember's Avatar
Torboticsmember Torboticsmember is offline
Registered User
AKA: Alan Bartow
FRC #2080 (Torbotics)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Hammond
Posts: 82
Torboticsmember is a name known to allTorboticsmember is a name known to allTorboticsmember is a name known to allTorboticsmember is a name known to allTorboticsmember is a name known to allTorboticsmember is a name known to all
Re: why I don't like this year's game

At first I was a little disappointed with the game; mainly because it sounds kind of easy. But the more I think about it and learn more and understand more about the game I have found that this will be a challenging, interesting, and exciting game. It takes a lot of thought trying finding a way to pick up that big of a ball. There will be many interesting bumps, and a lot of cool spots. an almost impossible example of this is that if robot A drops a track ball onto the field, then robot B comes along and juggles the trackball around the track, then scores a hurdle. How awesome would that be? Now I know that is not likely, but it is still cool to think of.

And I think we should have to talk in British accents, in a gentlemanly way. I mean that is just so awesome
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 07:49 PM
ChrisMcK2186's Avatar
ChrisMcK2186 ChrisMcK2186 is offline
Typer of doom
AKA: Chris McKenzie
FRC #2186 (Westfield Robotics)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Centreville
Posts: 193
ChrisMcK2186 is a glorious beacon of lightChrisMcK2186 is a glorious beacon of lightChrisMcK2186 is a glorious beacon of lightChrisMcK2186 is a glorious beacon of lightChrisMcK2186 is a glorious beacon of lightChrisMcK2186 is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via AIM to ChrisMcK2186
Re: why I don't like this year's game

Alright!

48 hours in and already people complaining. Not looking forward to the next six weeks?

While I'll admit I am not wild about the game, I am still pumped for another year with gear worth more than my car.(98 jeep wrangler, piece of trash)

The point is, when life gives you lemons, make powdered lemon flavored drink. Make the best of the situation, complaining will only make you feel worse and worse about it.

Don't like the game? Try joining the marketing team or spirit; anything that doesn't directly work with the robot.

It's gonna be interesting to see how people play the game this year with the drastic changes though.

Chris McKenzie
2186
__________________
Working on Robotic Eagles group(PM for info)

Stephen Colbert-"Please tell me this leads to robot
battles."
Dean Kamen-"It does lead to kids building robots, and they do compete in the sport but we also teach the kids gracious proffesionalism, so while the robots are competing, they do it in a very, very gracious way."

Darn, I got into this for the battles!
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-07-2008, 07:59 PM
Justin M. Justin M. is offline
Mechanical/Driver
FRC #0321 (RoboLancers)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 310
Justin M. is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to Justin M.
Re: why I don't like this year's game

This years game is a race. Defense isn't needed IMO. You're essentially racing your opponent to score more than them in the time period. There are no expendable pieces this year, they can be scored over and over.

It's much different than most of the previous games without a doubt. But it's not bad, certainly a change though.
__________________
Team 321: CHS RoboLancers - Drexel University, CHS Alumni Assn., SDP, Philadelphia Motorsports, Lima Corperation
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why I don't like it when politicians visit the QC... Jeremiah Johnson Chit-Chat 4 07-18-2006 02:03 PM
Last Years game vs. This year's Game santosh Chit-Chat 16 05-11-2005 04:50 PM
Why this game is better then last year's Davey H General Forum 45 03-24-2005 09:21 AM
[ECDU]: This year's game MikeL303 FIRST-related Organizations 6 01-22-2005 08:52 PM
Long post - this year's game was tough - here's why: archiver 2001 7 06-24-2002 02:31 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:02 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi