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View Poll Results: Which are you guys in the last 20 sec
Hanging 23 69.70%
Hanging from other robots 17 51.52%
Having others hang from you 21 63.64%
Get on the platform 1 3.03%
Do nothing to hang or get on a platform 5 15.15%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 01-10-2010, 04:57 PM
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Hanging

I was wondering which teams are thinking about hanging, having other robots hang from them, hanging from other robots, going on the platform, or doing nothing at all in the last 20sec of the match.
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Unread 01-11-2010, 12:47 AM
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Re: Hanging

Honestly, I think building a robot that is speedy and can make goals faster is a better idea then trying to make one that can hang. it is only 2 or 3 points. If you can make 5 more goals in a round it is better than getting both your robots. (Now if you can do both that is awesome!)

Also, on the platform thing. I did not read that anywhere in the manual, but I did notice it in the demo video. Does anyone know where it is in the manual?

~DtD
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Unread 01-11-2010, 01:48 AM
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Re: Hanging

Quote:
Originally Posted by DtD View Post
Also, on the platform thing. I did not read that anywhere in the manual, but I did notice it in the demo video. Does anyone know where it is in the manual?
I believe this comes from the definition of elevated, in section 7.2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game Manual, Section 7.2
A ROBOT that is completely above the plane of the PLATFORM and in contact with the tower shall be considered ELEVATED.
As long as a robot is in contact with the tower, and is above the plane created by the platform, the it is elevated. The platform is considered part of the tower, therefore if you are sitting on the platform, then you are elevated.

That is how I understand it.
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Unread 01-11-2010, 01:57 AM
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Re: Hanging

Quote:
Originally Posted by DtD View Post
Honestly, I think building a robot that is speedy and can make goals faster is a better idea then trying to make one that can hang. it is only 2 or 3 points. If you can make 5 more goals in a round it is better than getting both your robots. (Now if you can do both that is awesome!)

Also, on the platform thing. I did not read that anywhere in the manual, but I did notice it in the demo video. Does anyone know where it is in the manual?

~DtD
There may be a shortage of balls in the last little bit of play. Teams do have 11 seconds to get the balls back into the game, and then it will take a few more seconds for them to roll down and land. No doubt one robot could score one goal in the time it would take to climb... but could two score four? I doubt three could score seven goals.... but I am expecting to have certain alliances prove me wrong on that.

Interesting scenarios... in 2004 I seem to recall very successful robots that would do nothing but play a bit of defense then go hang. This year the low point value certainly keeps hanging from being a dominant part of the game.

Jason
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Unread 01-11-2010, 02:00 AM
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Re: Hanging

I've had discussions with team members about...

<G30> ROBOT Volume During a MATCH, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as follows:

c. TOWER Contact ROBOT Volume - During a MATCH, ROBOTS in contact with their ALLIANCE TOWER may extend beyond their NORMAL CONFIGURATION volume but may not exceed the FINALE CONFIGURATION maximum volume.

Seems that as long as your touching your tower, you can hang at anytime during the match.

Is this correct?
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Unread 01-11-2010, 02:07 AM
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Re: Hanging

Quote:
Originally Posted by 340x4xLife View Post
I've had discussions with team members about...

<G30> ROBOT Volume During a MATCH, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as follows:

c. TOWER Contact ROBOT Volume - During a MATCH, ROBOTS in contact with their ALLIANCE TOWER may extend beyond their NORMAL CONFIGURATION volume but may not exceed the FINALE CONFIGURATION maximum volume.

Seems that as long as your touching your tower, you can hang at anytime during the match.

Is this correct?
That's the reading I get. You don't get the protections, but if you can get to the tower and stay in contact with it, you can hang at any time.
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Unread 01-11-2010, 02:38 AM
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Re: Hanging

Quote:
Originally Posted by DtD View Post
Honestly, I think building a robot that is speedy and can make goals faster is a better idea then trying to make one that can hang. it is only 2 or 3 points. If you can make 5 more goals in a round it is better than getting both your robots. (Now if you can do both that is awesome!)
~DtD
I think you are over estimating how many goals you can score in 120 seconds. In the definitions it states that a ball is scored when it passes through the goal counter. So if your alliance can return a ball every 12 seconds you earn 10 points. Climb on platform or hang from tower and give a team mate a place to hang from and your alliance has 5 points.

I'm not sure our team is gonna go that way (the design problem is daunting to me) but the ability to hang and be hung from could be an asset.
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Unread 01-11-2010, 10:55 AM
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Re: Hanging

I think people are underestimating the importance of hanging. The points for one robot hanging may not seem significant, but when you get those stacks of three hanging, it's 8 points, which is very significant.

I can guarantee you that the six robots that make it to Einstein this year will be able to hang from the bar and other robots. That's my prediction anyway.
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Unread 01-11-2010, 11:50 AM
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Re: Hanging

Quote:
Originally Posted by 340x4xLife View Post
I've had discussions with team members about...

<G30> ROBOT Volume During a MATCH, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as follows:

c. TOWER Contact ROBOT Volume - During a MATCH, ROBOTS in contact with their ALLIANCE TOWER may extend beyond their NORMAL CONFIGURATION volume but may not exceed the FINALE CONFIGURATION maximum volume.

Seems that as long as your touching your tower, you can hang at anytime during the match.

Is this correct?
No.
According to the definitions in section 8.2 it says, quote:

FINALE CONFIGURATION - The physical configuration and orientation of the ROBOT while playing during the FINALE phase of the game (i.e. the last 20 seconds of the MATCH). This configuration is dynamic, and may change multiple times during the FINALE phase of a MATCH.

and

NORMAL CONFIGURATION The physical configuration and orientation of the ROBOT when the MATCH is started. This is the state of the ROBOT immediately before being enabled by the Field Management System, before the ROBOT takes any actions, deploys any mechanisms, or moves away from the starting location. This configuration is static, and does not change during a single MATCH (although it may change from MATCH to MATCH).

The only time you can be out of normal config is during Finale
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Unread 01-11-2010, 11:57 AM
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Re: Hanging

It appears then that <G30> and the definitions in 8.2 conflict, because <G30> clearly says during a MATCH, not during the FINALE, for TOWER Contact ROBOT Volume.
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Unread 01-11-2010, 12:02 PM
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Re: Hanging

Interesting. G30.c does say that. it also says in G30.d that you can get bigger in the last 20 sec even if not hanging. Could make a big difference with abilities to score.
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Unread 01-11-2010, 12:17 PM
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Re: Hanging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve W View Post
No.
According to the definitions in section 8.2 it says, quote:

FINALE CONFIGURATION - The physical configuration and orientation of the ROBOT while playing during the FINALE phase of the game (i.e. the last 20 seconds of the MATCH). This configuration is dynamic, and may change multiple times during the FINALE phase of a MATCH.

and

NORMAL CONFIGURATION The physical configuration and orientation of the ROBOT when the MATCH is started. This is the state of the ROBOT immediately before being enabled by the Field Management System, before the ROBOT takes any actions, deploys any mechanisms, or moves away from the starting location. This configuration is static, and does not change during a single MATCH (although it may change from MATCH to MATCH).

The only time you can be out of normal config is during Finale
I disagree - <G30>c states that "During a MATCH, ROBOTS in contact with their ALLIANCE TOWER may extend beyond their NORMAL CONFIGURATION volume but may not exceed the FINALE CONFIGURATION maximum volume."
Your robot can extend at any time during a match, as long as it is in contact with the alliance tower. It will not be protected, however, until the FINALE portion of the game.
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Unread 01-11-2010, 12:22 PM
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Re: Hanging

Definately one for the Q&A, but here's how I interpret G30:

A. For interacting with balls, robots can extend beyond the frame perimeter, but not beyond the 28x38 limit. (no mention of changing from normal configuration in part A)

B. Robots may expand into the finale configuration, for the purpose of righting themselves or others

C. Robots in contact with a tower, at any time, may expand to the finale configuration (I agree the definition of finale seems to contradict this a bit, but G30C pretty much directly states that the robot can take on the finale configuration when contacting the tower)

D. No matter where they are, or what they are doing, robots may take on the finale configuration in the last 20 seconds.
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