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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-22-2011, 10:14 AM
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

I absolutely agree with everything that has been said about staying within the rules, but a team that goes over a withholding limit by say 5lbs should not always be judged as trying to bend the rules. It was suggested that teams that go over are not planning their time wisely, however if you were in the North East like us time was certainly lost due to snow. We planned ahead but when the school is closed we cannot work and to suggest students meet elsewhere that day and drive is ridiculous because they closed schools, business, and gov't offices for a public safety issue.

So please try to follow the withholding as best as possible and for the spirit of finishing your robot not to add things.
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Unread 03-22-2011, 10:18 AM
CGuenther CGuenther is offline
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

Can you bring in 35 lbs of manufactured parts? Yes. You'll probably get away with it, too.

Should you bring in 35 lbs of manufactured parts? Absolutely, emphatically, NO. This is an extremely cut and dry rule, 30 lbs is 30 lbs. Please don't make the inspectors have to start checking this, as they already have way too much to do.
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Unread 03-22-2011, 10:38 AM
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

we should really follow he rules of the competition. it will be wrong to have more than 30 lbs, and yes you will have to rebuild your robot because they are very strict about it. you must have 30 lbs and nothing more.
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Unread 03-22-2011, 10:38 AM
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

Quote:
Originally Posted by team 3311 View Post
How serious are they about the 30 lbs?
How much does your word mean to you?
Quote:
Team Compliance Statement
We, the Team Mentor and Team Captain, attest by our signing below, that our team’s robot was built after the 2011 Kickoff on January 8, 2011 and in accordance with all of the 2011 FRC rules, including all Fabrication Schedule rules. We have conducted our own inspection and determined that our robot satisfies all of the 2011 FRC rules for robot design.
Team Captain: Team Mentor:
Can you or anyone tell that we took last year's gearboxes totally apart and rebuilt them so they would be legal? Who would know?

We would.
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Last edited by Gary Dillard : 03-22-2011 at 10:40 AM.
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Unread 03-22-2011, 10:48 AM
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

If dismantling the cover and putting it back together will get you in compliance, then do that. It is not "stupid." It is doing whatever it takes to build within the rules just like you did during your build season. This rule is no different than the 1000 other rules that you have followed, many of which can't be checked. Don't make all your other good work meaningless by bending this silly rule at the finish line. Its not worth it. If you have success at your regional, you don't want Jimminy Cricket spoiling it by whispering in your ear.
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Unread 03-22-2011, 10:50 AM
taven_f taven_f is offline
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

i think that they should bring whatever they need, it really shouldntbe a problem if they go over the limit but such a little amount . but if you do get checked and they see that your over good luck . But if i was you i would stick to the rule and keep it to 30 or under
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Unread 03-22-2011, 10:54 AM
Steve_Alaniz Steve_Alaniz is offline
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

I stand corrected... I didn't think this was a big deal. There seems to be a lot of passion about this. Perhaps we should put a scale out there and offer to help at the Dallas regional. Just an idea, Any thoughts?

Steve
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Unread 03-22-2011, 10:57 AM
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

I'm concerned and troubled with the number of responses in this thread that basically say you'll probably get away with it so it's OK. Nothing could be further from the truth, and this is a lesson for life, not just robotics. You will forever be confronted with choosing between right and wrong, or choosing what you think you can get away with. Which way you go defines what kind of person you are. Choose wisely.
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Unread 03-22-2011, 11:26 AM
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Alaniz View Post
I stand corrected... I didn't think this was a big deal. There seems to be a lot of passion about this. Perhaps we should put a scale out there and offer to help at the Dallas regional. Just an idea, Any thoughts?
A novel idea to earn some GP points at your event. Hold up a poster at the team entrance that says "WITHOLDING ALLOWANCE TROUBLE? WE CAN HELP." Offer to help teams figure out what they can keep, what they can't, and how to get within the rules. Offer your students to provide the manual labor to mismantle or re-fabricate parts when that is what is required.
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Unread 03-22-2011, 12:33 PM
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

Thanks for all the answers.

We will take a motor and some other little pieces of so that we are in the 30 lbs.

We do not want to bend the rules anyhow. We are serious about following the rules.
We did not plan on going over the 30, but like I said the cover turned out to be very heavy.

And by the way: We do not live in the north east, so our schools were not closed, but we are still not allowed to use the school shops.
So our robot is build in a living room without of any special shop tool and without of any mentors.
So also if we had the 5 lbs more I don't think that we would have any advantage. Other teams do more than we do, because they have good machines that we could just dream of.

Thanks for all your answers again!
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Unread 03-22-2011, 01:03 PM
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

At Bayou Regional, there was no concern for the 30 pounds. It seems you could have brought any part of the robot. No one seemed to care.
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Unread 03-22-2011, 01:44 PM
CoachPoore CoachPoore is offline
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

Quote:
Originally Posted by team 3311 View Post
Other teams do more than we do, because they have good machines that we could just dream of.
This is off topic, but I've seen this thought expressed in a number of threads recently.

Please don't think that a machine shop is the answer to all your problems. You don't need a lathe/CNC/laser cutter etc to build a winning robot. In 2006 (our second season), we built a robot that I'm sure many people would be tempted to smile at because of the build quality and the materials and construction techniques we used. The ball shooter was built from plywood, aluminum angle and door hinges. It was fabricated in a home basement workshop with a table saw, a chop saw, a drill press and a bunch of hand tools. We were fortunate enough to win the Granite State Regional, be an alliance captain in our division in Atlanta and win some off-season tournaments because our hand-built-held-together-with-wood-screws camera-guided plywood shooter could sink all 10 balls in autonomous. We still have our 2006 robot, and every now and then we look at it, smile at the way it was built, and enjoy some fine memories.

Have our design and construction skills and techniques improved since then? Definitely, and we now have sponsors who will machine things for us. Our robot is still made in the same basement workshop, though. We even have a bandsaw now

The important point though is that none of these things in themselves make a competitive robot. Working out a successful game strategy and then designing a reliable robot that you can build within your team's limitations so you can play to that strategy is a challenge that every single team faces. So please don't convince yourself that a "good" robot is out of your reach.

I hope this helps - I'm trying to encourage you, not make you feel bad.

Noel
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Unread 03-22-2011, 02:08 PM
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

30 pounds is easy to follow with the COTS rules.

My team over the last several years has worked with the COTS and witholding rules to allow major changes to our robots at events when we knew we got something wrong in the initial design.

In 2009 our frame had issues so we built a new one under that year's limit and carried it in to swap out every robot component and didn't miss a single practice match.

In 2010 we completely redesigned our kicker/possesor when the original exploded at scrimmage in our first match and we had to go back to the drawing board. This limited what we could do with our hanger so a good portion of that was made from raw material we carried in with us.

If you maximize use of COTS by purchasing gears and transmissions from AndyMark and Banebots or designing simple cuts of raw materialyou can do a lot with 30 lbs. By planning well and using these rules you can do a lot within the rules and have a clean conscience but it means you have to plan ahead.

Don't fight the rules, work with them and they are more helpful than you think.
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Unread 03-22-2011, 06:38 PM
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

We took some pieces off and apart now and we have ~27lbs. We will have to do at lot in Thursday but thats propably the same for every team.
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Unread 03-22-2011, 08:01 PM
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Re: 30 lbs allowance

Quote:
Originally Posted by team 3311 View Post
We could take it apart again, which would make it to spare material,
No, read the definition of FABRICATED ITEM please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Alaniz View Post
<sigh> everybody takes these thing so seriously.
Yes, we do.

A good measure of Integrity is what you do when nobody's watching.
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