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Unread 04-01-2012, 06:59 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

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Originally Posted by P.J. View Post
I don't really agree with you on this point. IRI is not supposed to be harder (the teams that come make it harder, but the game is not changed to be more difficult) it's supposed to take the rules that people don't necessarily like and remove them, or add ones to make the game more fun.

I would prefer having 6 balls that can be distributed any way among your alliance rather than taking away balls from them and putting them on the bridges.
Agreed, prefect example is last year. Ubertubes could be scored in teleop, and the value of a minibot was depreciated. Didn't make it harder, just made the rules more fun and more agreeable.

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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:00 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

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Originally Posted by P.J. View Post
I don't really agree with you on this point. IRI is not supposed to be harder (the teams that come make it harder, but the game is not changed to be more difficult) it's supposed to take the rules that people don't necessarily like and remove them, or add ones to make the game more fun.

I would prefer having 6 balls that can be distributed any way among your alliance rather than taking away balls from them and putting them on the bridges.
Whichever way works. I haven't been to IRI yet, so I've only heard it's harder.

Note to self: Go to IRI sometime.
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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:01 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

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Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 View Post
Whichever way works. I haven't been to IRI yet, so I've only heard it's harder.

Note to self: Go to IRI sometime.
It's harder because every team there is really really good.
Even if your team can't go, you should go to watch. It's amazing.

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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:01 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

or how about giving bonuses to shots made with the Kinect station and give bonuses to shots made while balanced on the bridges. You could also then say that any ball made while on the co-op bridge in the quals those points go towards both alliances' QS ranking score.
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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:03 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

What if you decreased the point value of two robots on the coopertition bridge and had a special value if three robots are on the coopertition bridge.

Just a thought I think it would be cool.
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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:19 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

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Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 View Post
Whichever way works. I haven't been to IRI yet, so I've only heard it's harder.
It's harder because 85% of the 70-robot field is the caliber of 254 and 971. Not because the rules are harder. (The other 15% wants to be at that caliber.)
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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:21 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

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Originally Posted by EricH View Post
It's harder because 85% of the 70-robot field is the caliber of 254 and 971. Not because the rules are harder. (The other 15% wants to be at that caliber.)
WOW. That's tough! I'll need to watch the webcast this year for sure!
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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:21 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

Aw man, I saw EricH was the last one to post and I was really excited to see his suggestion for rule changes. No such luck.
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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:22 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

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Originally Posted by EricH View Post
It's harder because 85% of the 70-robot field is the caliber of 254 and 971. Not because the rules are harder. (The other 15% wants to be at that caliber.)
It's like shaving the cream that has risen to the top of each championship division putting them into a blender and serving the concoction up to the FIRST community for dessert.
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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:24 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

9 points for incidental contact on the opponent's bridge, including contact that doesn't affect the game at all, is way too much of a penalty. Aside from that, I can't really think of anything that needs to be changed right now - it would probably be a good idea to wait for Championships to see what really high-level competition looks like.
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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:26 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

Co-op bridge: Most (if not all) of the teams at IRI will be able to double balance with reasonable reliability. I worry that deciding the point at which you stop scoring and go to the bridge will create a sort of prisoner's dilemma. (Delaying 10 seconds from an agreed balance time is good for winning an individual match but bad for earning other teams' trust.) However, I feel like removing its functionality altogether would take away a core aspect of the game. I like the idea of getting three robots on a bridge in teleop, but we don't want to be unfair to the team using two robots on the co-op bridge. Given all of this, how about the following?
  • Normal co-op balances are worth 1 QP. Maybe co-op non-balances are worth .5 QP, maybe they're worth nothing.
  • Triple co-op balances are worth 2 QP and 10+n points to the alliance with two robots on the bridge to cover the opportunity cost, where 0 ≤ n ≤ 5. If the triple balance rate were 100%, n would be 0, but the maneuver carries with it a relatively large risk; it'd be nice to at least throw a tiebreaker the way of the team taking it.
    EDIT: Upon further reflection, n should probably be 0... we don't want any co-op balances sabotaged, and this reduces the chance of that.

Human player shots: They're cool, but I want to see robots doing things. If I want to see humans playing basketball I can watch TV . Only very slightly more seriously, 6 points is too much of a swing for such a luck-based event. On the other hand, giving bonus points to robots making shots from behind the barrier (not on the bridges, which give a height boost) would be pretty cool. However, it would be nontrivial to find the source of every shot without extra referees.

Bridge penalties: 9 points is too much. How about 3 points until there are 30 seconds left, then stock rules after that?

Last edited by Ziv : 04-01-2012 at 09:54 PM.
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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:27 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

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Originally Posted by bduddy View Post
9 points for incidental contact on the opponent's bridge, including contact that doesn't affect the game at all, is way too much of a penalty. Aside from that, I can't really think of anything that needs to be changed right now - it would probably be a good idea to wait for Championships to see what really high-level competition looks like.
MSC and the MAR championship should be a real good indication of how IRI will play out.
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Unread 04-01-2012, 07:56 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

That coop bridge would get balanced 99% of the time. I say throw it out all together and use elimination bridge rules (much more fun). I don't like the idea of bonus points for shooting from far away because a lot of robots are not designed to shoot past the key. It would be fun with more balls on the field though maybe start 3 or 4 on each bridge instead of 2.
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Unread 04-01-2012, 08:06 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

How about Inbounders can only hold one ball rather than two? This would make ball control by the robots rather than the humans more important.

In general, I think the best rule changes for IRI are the ones that create new strategies for winning that are competitive with those already proven as winners.

I think a money ball, or actually two, one for each alliance, that can be entered in the last thirty seconds, but only through the Inbound slot would be interesting if it was worth 5 times a normal basket. This would make it a toss up as to whether or not to go for the triple balance or for the money ball. But some of the best might pull off both especially if you worked as a team!
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Unread 04-01-2012, 08:17 PM
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Re: IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

I want to see the triple implemented on all three bridges in qualification matches. It will make teams have to decide where to balance, triple on your own to win, or try to double all three bridges and hope for the win and coop. If you think you will loose you're better off trying to triple on the coop bridge with two of your robots and one from the other alliance. Rarely at IRI would you have a team not on the bridge at the end since they will be worth so many points.

1 QP for double coop bridge and 2 for a triple like others have said. I am not sure about giving a score bonus to the team with 2 robots, I don't see that playing out very well.

There have been so many creative triple balance strategies (NYC anyone), I would love to see impromptu triple balances on the coop bridge.

I also think that at least one ball from each alliance bridge should be moved to the center bridge. The battle for the bridge in hybrid is going to be so important at Championship that making it have more balls will increase competitiveness. Do you shoot first or go to the bridge first and shoot once you have the balls on your side. It would be much harder to 5 ball if you can't shoot your two first, though I guess you could shoot them while moving back to the bridge.
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