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Unread 04-03-2012, 05:35 PM
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Live and Let Live

The thread about mentors on drive teams, as well as the annual thread debating student-built versus student-and-mentor-built robots have really started to get under my skin. There is so much judging go on of teams who choose one style over another. My team does what works for my team. Let your team do the same.

I bring this up because I feel there is a lot of hostility towards teams whose mentors have a greater role in the team than some and, as someone on one of those teams, it's really borderline offensive to be constantly told that we are "missing the mission of FIRST" or simply "doing it wrong." But who is anybody to really judge a team they have never been a part of?

So, please, can't we all just live and let live?
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Unread 04-03-2012, 05:38 PM
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Re: Live and Let Live

If only CD had a "like" button.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 05:39 PM
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Re: Live and Let Live

Such reasonableness will not be tolerated! This is teh interwebz!
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Unread 04-03-2012, 06:14 PM
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Re: Live and Let Live

I have a problem when mentors keep students from getting to build the robot, but anyone who thinks that the mentors can't take part is probably overlooking what their own mentors do for them. Some years mentors don't touch our robot, sometimes they do, but they always let the students lead and we all have fun. People need to stop letting their emotions get the better of them and look back to the "mission of FIRST" - TEACHING. If the students learn and are inspired, the job was done; however it gets done is up to you. Let's leave each other alone.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 06:18 PM
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Re: Live and Let Live

Agreed!
If your formula works for your team, then it doesn't really matter what anyone else says. We are getting 96% of our students into college or university. The majority of the remainder are in trade schools or family businesses. That is our success, everything else is secondary.
When our students graduate, they know how to use tools, assemble robots, perform electrical wiring, program, work strategy, gather data, animate, design and CAD because they perform those functions on our team.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 06:27 PM
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Re: Live and Let Live

Most people in FIRST deal exclusively with their own team (and maybe interact with some other local teams). People should try volunteering and get outside their own little box and see the greater world of FIRST. It is amazing to behold. All the different teams. All the different methods. All the different approaches. I have many favorite teams that I have seen over my many years of FIRST that are very different from my own. I have even brought a few ideas back form those other teams to my team to try out. You can learn alot from a teams different perspective of seeing things in FIRST. Obviously not everything is going to work out but seeing and learning how other teams solve the great problems the GDC challenges the teams with every year is the ingredients for the inspiration that we come back for year after year in FIRST. Don't discourage it. Embrace it til it bursts!
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Unread 04-03-2012, 07:39 PM
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Re: Live and Let Live

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinRueb1891 View Post
I have a problem when mentors keep students from getting to build the robot, but anyone who thinks that the mentors can't take part is probably overlooking what their own mentors do for them. Some years mentors don't touch our robot, sometimes they do, but they always let the students lead and we all have fun. People need to stop letting their emotions get the better of them and look back to the "mission of FIRST" - TEACHING. If the students learn and are inspired, the job was done; however it gets done is up to you. Let's leave each other alone.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 07:55 PM
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Re: Live and Let Live

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Sigley View Post
Couldn't have said it better myself.
You could have said it right... FIRST isn't about teaching, it's about inspiration. Inspiration can come from education but it can also come without it. I don't need to teach my students how to build a hardware PID controller. Only show them what it can do so they can become curious and want to learn how to do it. Some mentors/teams/students are inspired through education, others aren't or can't.

To me, if all a student learns in a given season is "I don't really like writing code" I consider it a success, the student was inspired to find what they are passionate about. That's my job here.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Our job is to make the horse thirsty.
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Unread 04-03-2012, 07:55 PM
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Re: Live and Let Live

FIRST describes this program as students working "side by side" with professional mentors. We describe our team as working "shoulder to shoulder." This may be be at the CAD station, at the fundraiser, in front of the lathe, in the logistics meeting, or behind the glass at the driver station. Maximum learning happens with maximum interaction between students and mentors, whenever and wherever that may be.
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Unread 04-04-2012, 01:11 AM
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Re: Live and Let Live

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber View Post
You could have said it right... FIRST isn't about teaching, it's about inspiration. Inspiration can come from education but it can also come without it.
It's all good man, I see them as complementary. Inspiration and Education go like Milk and Cookies.
I agree with you as well, If someone learns that they don't like something, then that makes their future easier as well helping them focus on what they do like and the steps they can take to learn that.
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Unread 04-04-2012, 01:57 AM
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Re: Live and Let Live

Agreed.

This is a very hostile topic, but i believe it's something that should be taken care of within each club. Not something that should be argued about between clubs.
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Unread 04-04-2012, 08:34 AM
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Re: Live and Let Live

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexa Stott View Post
The thread about mentors on drive teams, as well as the annual thread debating student-built versus student-and-mentor-built robots have really started to get under my skin. There is so much judging go on of teams who choose one style over another. My team does what works for my team. Let your team do the same.
Agreed!

I also find it interesting that many are quick to point out, "Well, there's nothing in the rulebook that says my robot can't do X!".

And then everyone turns around and complains about team organization and all of those things that are purposely left up to teams to decide. It's almost like they want *more* rules from FIRST...
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Unread 04-04-2012, 08:43 AM
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Lightbulb Re: Live and Let Live

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Originally Posted by BrendanB View Post
If only CD had a "like" button.
No like button, but there is a Reputation button, and/or the spotlight button...
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