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  #196   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-10-2012, 03:15 PM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

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Originally Posted by Bob Steele View Post
I seem to remember bad weather in Atlanta too... At least something caused all those broken windows and damage back a few years ago... let me see,,, Yes it was a tornado ....I remember several teams got displaced from their hotels...

I don't think anywhere we go would be immune to weather conditions in April... or the possibility of earthquake or whatever...
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Just remember the size of the venue necessary...
You need something like the Georgia Dome
or the Edwards Jones Dome in St. Louis to have the space.
Or Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis

I suggest Lucas Oil in Indy... there are rarely tornadoes there, the worst weather is usually small hail (pea size, once in a blue moon golf ball size).
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Unread 05-15-2012, 08:44 PM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

We could have it in North Carolina. There are pretty big stadiums over there.

In Fayetteville where I grew up we had the Crown Center used for Graduations, Minor League Hockey games, and concerts. Maybe not big enough for a championship but its big enough to hold a competition. (Also there isnt a big area for pits in the Center but there is an Exposition Center that goes from 10,000 sq feet to 60,000 square feet. Pretty much NEXT door!!! ) I really like this area because there is a lot of room.

http://www.atthecrown.com/facilities.aspx

Please check this out!
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Unread 05-17-2012, 12:05 AM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

Less than 100 teams in a division would be great. Also, I agree with the idea of division awards. When there are 400 teams, that means that over 90% of teams attending the championship will come home with nothing as far as hardware is concerned. This is too big of a margin in my opinion.

FIRST really needs to do something on their online system. Not only is the FIRST website clunky and hard to navigate around, some of its most important information is very well hidden. For example, how do I find out what awards a team from my area (or something like that) has won? It is impossible to find, especially for "outsiders." Stuff like that should be easy to find and more up-front. And it's not just for awards. It is hard to find any information about teams and events, and when you do, a lot of times it is very outdated or misinformed.

Going along with that, why has the Hall of Fame been swept into the corner and out of the way the past two years? They should be out front for everyone to see. I was disappointed with its location last year tucked into a corner. This year, I was even more disappointed with its size and location. Had I not known what I was looking for, I would have missed the Hall of Fame teams. These are your best teams and the model teams for FIRST. They deserve to be out front in plain sight for everyone to see.

The finale was much better than last year, but it was a logistical nightmare. Granted, it was complicated even more with the weather issue. However, I know we almost had some issues keeping track of our students across four different venues, and I can't imagine how hard it would be for some other teams. Keep it in one place, or two places at minimum. Having four different parties going on at once is just too much.


On a lighter note (and I guess this belongs in the positive), I am very glad that FIRST has stepped away from the path they were trying to go down last year. Rock stars, rock concerts, famous people, big names are all great, but when they overshadow what the event is truly about, it becomes disturbing. Don't change who we are to appeal more to the outside world. Change the outside world around us and inspire them to join. I am very glad that FIRST has put a better balance on what is important.
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Unread 05-18-2012, 10:45 AM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

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Originally Posted by Alex2614 View Post
On a lighter note (and I guess this belongs in the positive), I am very glad that FIRST has stepped away from the path they were trying to go down last year. Rock stars, rock concerts, famous people, big names are all great, but when they overshadow what the event is truly about, it becomes disturbing. Don't change who we are to appeal more to the outside world. Change the outside world around us and inspire them to join. I am very glad that FIRST has put a better balance on what is important.
This isn't really a 'part' of this thread, but I just wanted to clarify something real quick. I've already expanded on this, if you'd like to talk more about it check here and/or PM me.

...The concert was a celebration of our 20th year, donated to us. Wouldn't you take that if it were given to you?

will.i.am choosing to connect with Dean and with FIRST was a such a wonderful opportunity. Will supports FIRST, and continues to do so. Having such a big name being able to go around and tell others about our program? Talk about culture change...
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Unread 05-18-2012, 11:37 AM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

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This isn't really a 'part' of this thread, but I just wanted to clarify something real quick. I've already expanded on this, if you'd like to talk more about it check here and/or PM me.

...The concert was a celebration of our 20th year, donated to us. Wouldn't you take that if it were given to you?

will.i.am choosing to connect with Dean and with FIRST was a such a wonderful opportunity. Will supports FIRST, and continues to do so. Having such a big name being able to go around and tell others about our program? Talk about culture change...
Amen Libby!
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Unread 05-18-2012, 01:22 PM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

I understand that. What I'm saying is that the entire year last year they kept saying "FIRST kids aren't geeks." Stuff like that. They kept trying to change the image of who we are. In the words of Dave Lavery, "I'm a geek and I'm $@#$@#$@#$@# proud of it." THAT'S who FIRST is. Promote our image and who we are, don't change it to appeal to the rest of the world. That may not have been what their intentions were, but that's how it came across to a lot of people.

And yes, the concert was nice. However, when FIRST blatantly lied to us about why the fields were in the pits, that was pretty offensive. Bill Miller said that the fields in the pits has nothing to do with the concert at all, which was obviously a lie. FIRST was originally planning to have half of the dome empty until the concert plan came through? I'm sorry, but that's bull and everyone knows it. It's all a part of the transparency issue. The lies are where the issue is. If they are going to do something like that, at least be truthful and up front with us. FIRST gave the image that the Black Eyed Peas and famous people are more important than the students and the competition. The image was that they kicked us out of the dome for the concert. Like I said, the concert was great and it was a great time, but things could have been handled differently. I know that this was not the image that FIRST was planning on giving, but that's how it came across to the teams.

Libby, everything you said in the post you linked to should have been publicly announced and explained by FIRST. I understand where you are coming from and I agree with everything you have said. All I'm asking is to try to see it from our point of view. I think everyone can agree that you probably have more of an inside view than the rest of us do... This is what it looked like from our point of view:
We had no warning or explanation for what was going to transpire at the cmp '11, then suddenly shortly before we got there, FIRST tells us that the fields are now in the pits (which, by the way, was a part of the "original plan" according to Bill Miller) and there will be a concert stage in the dome (which had nothing to do with the fields in the pits according to Bill Miller). Then having to play almost the entire cmp (with the exception of 2 matches) in the pits with seats that could not fit everybody (we had parents that could not watch matches because there were no seats) combined with other problems and discomforts and pains. All of this for a concert. FIRST had at this point yet to give a public announcement explaining why all of this was going on and to explain to teams the inside information that you have been saying. And then on top of that, we get what is obviously a lie about why we were experiencing what we were experiencing. The teams and robots were being overshadowed and kicked under the bus for the rock stars. Then there were other things that furthered our frustration, such as the hall of fame teams being shoved into the corner where nobody could see them, and out in the open is all of the big name sponsors, etc. I actually looked for the hall of fame to talk to them, and couldn't find them for the longest time. This year was a little better.

All I'm saying is that all of this gave the wrong image and there was not enough transparency to the teams. FIRST's heart was in the right place last year. I'm not saying the concert and Will.I.Am is a bad thing. In fact, I think it's great. But their approach left a little to be desired. This year, FIRST had a better balance in promoting the students and who we are.

I'm not just saying that the CMP was better this year because of the fields issues. Everything was handled better and there was a better balance everywhere one looked between the students and teams and robots and who FIRST is and the big names and sponsors. Logistics-wise the event was better as well. Things were laid out better mostly because FIRST had learned from last year. Things flowed better, etc.
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Unread 05-18-2012, 02:03 PM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

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Originally Posted by Alex2614 View Post
I understand that. What I'm saying is that the entire year last year they kept saying "FIRST kids aren't geeks." Stuff like that. They kept trying to change the image of who we are. In the words of Dave Lavery, "I'm a geek and I'm $@#$@#$@#$@# proud of it." THAT'S who FIRST is. Promote our image and who we are, don't change it to appeal to the rest of the world. That may not have been what their intentions were, but that's how it came across to a lot of people.
I do see your point, especially given Dr. Flowers' description of "SuperNerds" in 2010. However, I got a different reading from the promotional items. I got "FIRST kids aren't just geeks - they're also athletes, inventors, friends.
Quote:
And yes, the concert was nice. However, when FIRST blatantly lied to us about why the fields were in the pits, that was pretty offensive. Bill Miller said that the fields in the pits has nothing to do with the concert at all, which was obviously a lie. FIRST was originally planning to have half of the dome empty until the concert plan came through? I'm sorry, but that's bull and everyone knows it. It's all a part of the transparency issue. The lies are where the issue is. If they are going to do something like that, at least be truthful and up front with us.
It wasn't lies, it was meant to be a surprise. Please don't complain about the party that was thrown in your honor because they didn't use your favorite color of balloons.
Quote:
FIRST gave the image that the Black Eyed Peas and famous people are more important than the students and the competition. The image was that they kicked us out of the dome for the concert. Like I said, the concert was great and it was a great time, but things could have been handled differently. I know that this was not the image that FIRST was planning on giving, but that's how it came across to the teams.
With all due respect, the BEPs and other celebs were more important than us. We didn't make an hourlong ABC special, and fund it from our own bank accounts.
Quote:
We had no warning or explanation for what was going to transpire at the cmp '11, then suddenly shortly before we got there, FIRST tells us that the fields are now in the pits (which, by the way, was a part of the "original plan" according to Bill Miller) and there will be a concert stage in the dome (which had nothing to do with the fields in the pits according to Bill Miller). Then having to play almost the entire cmp (with the exception of 2 matches) in the pits with seats that could not fit everybody (we had parents that could not watch matches because there were no seats) combined with other problems and discomforts and pains. All of this for a concert. FIRST had at this point yet to give a public announcement explaining why all of this was going on and to explain to teams the inside information that you have been saying. And then on top of that, we get what is obviously a lie about why we were experiencing what we were experiencing. The teams and robots were being overshadowed and kicked under the bus for the rock stars.
If FIRST had declared there was going to be a free BEP concert, they would have invited a hailstorm (no pun intended) of security troubles.
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Last edited by Taylor : 05-18-2012 at 02:20 PM.
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Unread 05-18-2012, 02:05 PM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

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Originally Posted by Alex2614 View Post
I understand that. What I'm saying is that the entire year last year they kept saying "FIRST kids aren't geeks." Stuff like that. They kept trying to change the image of who we are. In the words of Dave Lavery, "I'm a geek and I'm $@#$@#$@#$@# proud of it." THAT'S who FIRST is. Promote our image and who we are, don't change it to appeal to the rest of the world. That may not have been what their intentions were, but that's how it came across to a lot of people.
Since when was the FIRST image intrinsically tied into "nerd pride"? If being a part of FIRST means that you have to be a nerd and proud of it, clearly I'm in the wrong program and need to find somewhere else to go. Being a geek and proud may be part of who you are, and that's more than fine, but it's certainly not a part of who I am and who many others are in this program.

Painting with broad brush strokes almost always results in an ugly picture.
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Unread 05-18-2012, 03:34 PM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

Wait, I thought this thread was about 2012?
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Unread 05-18-2012, 04:05 PM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

There still seems to be an emphasis on starting new teams, but many areas don't have the mentors and veteran support structure to insure their sustainability. While many teams work with rookies and younger teams in their area, perhaps more teams would get involved if it became one of Dean's homework assignments, or was encouraged through a similar avenue.
I've been a bit out of touch with things, so if FIRST has put out anything on this and I've missed it, it would be greatly appreciated if someone could point me in that direction.

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Originally Posted by Alex2614 View Post
On a lighter note (and I guess this belongs in the positive), I am very glad that FIRST has stepped away from the path they were trying to go down last year. Rock stars, rock concerts, famous people, big names are all great, but when they overshadow what the event is truly about, it becomes disturbing. Don't change who we are to appeal more to the outside world. Change the outside world around us and inspire them to join. I am very glad that FIRST has put a better balance on what is important.
This has been discussed to death in a number of threads. Let's move on and keep this one on topic: areas where things can be made even better for the 2013 season.
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Unread 05-18-2012, 09:53 PM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

Quote:
With all due respect, the BEPs and other celebs were more important than us. We didn't make an hourlong ABC special, and fund it from our own bank accounts.
My team did a special on our local ABC News Because of the special. We got a call from ABC Action News and asked us to do a special for them.

Consequently, because of the celebrities and that hype we got a great opportunity.

It was pretty awesome!!!!!!!!!
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Unread 05-18-2012, 10:48 PM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

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If FIRST had declared there was going to be a free BEP concert, they would have invited a hailstorm (no pun intended) of security troubles.
I have no use for a BEP concert, but would totally rock out to Halestorm!

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Since when was the FIRST image intrinsically tied into "nerd pride"? If being a part of FIRST means that you have to be a nerd and proud of it, clearly I'm in the wrong program and need to find somewhere else to go.
Yup. I'm a geek and sufficiently self-confident that I don't care whether or not other people care, but there are plenty of FIRSTers who are passionate about science and technology but aren't into the whole "geek pride" thing.
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Unread 05-19-2012, 10:10 PM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

First of all, let me just say that I understand where everyone is coming from. I'm not saying that the image and promotion and concerts and whatnot was bad last year, all I'm saying is that there was a better balance this year. That is all. Better balance. No need to take it out of context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexa Stott View Post
Wait, I thought this thread was about 2012?
It was. I made a side comment about what went better in 2012 in comparison to 2011 and people didn't fully understand what I meant.

Let's just please move on. If you would like to discuss further on the topic, please PM me or email me and let's keep it away from here. As for everyone else, let's keep going with what the thread was originally intended for.

My original post with the somewhat controversial paragraph removed:

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Originally Posted by Alex2614 View Post
Less than 100 teams in a division would be great. Also, I agree with the idea of division awards. When there are 400 teams, that means that over 90% of teams attending the championship will come home with nothing as far as hardware is concerned. This is too big of a margin in my opinion.

FIRST really needs to do something on their online system. Not only is the FIRST website clunky and hard to navigate around, some of its most important information is very well hidden. For example, how do I find out what awards a team from my area (or something like that) has won? It is impossible to find, especially for "outsiders." Stuff like that should be easy to find and more up-front. And it's not just for awards. It is hard to find any information about teams and events, and when you do, a lot of times it is very outdated or misinformed.

Going along with that, why has the Hall of Fame been swept into the corner and out of the way the past two years? They should be out front for everyone to see. I was disappointed with its location last year tucked into a corner. This year, I was even more disappointed with its size and location. Had I not known what I was looking for, I would have missed the Hall of Fame teams. These are your best teams and the model teams for FIRST. They deserve to be out front in plain sight for everyone to see.

The finale was much better than last year, but it was a logistical nightmare. Granted, it was complicated even more with the weather issue. However, I know we almost had some issues keeping track of our students across four different venues, and I can't imagine how hard it would be for some other teams. Keep it in one place, or two places at minimum. Having four different parties going on at once is just too much.
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Last edited by Alex2614 : 05-20-2012 at 12:07 AM. Reason: spelling
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Unread 05-19-2012, 10:28 PM
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dlavery dlavery is offline
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

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Originally Posted by Alex2614 View Post
And yes, the concert was nice. However, when FIRST blatantly lied to us about why the fields were in the pits, that was pretty offensive. Bill Miller said that the fields in the pits has nothing to do with the concert at all, which was obviously a lie.
While I fully appreciate many of the other comments that have been made, I do need to correct this one. Bill Miller's statements were completely accurate. Well before Will and the BEPs were even a factor in the 2011 Championship planning, the plan was to have two of the division fields in the pits area. I am absolutely certain about this, I was there when the plans were being discussed. There are many things that can be learned from the last two years of Championship events, and the full competition seasons. However, this is not an item that needs to be added to the list.

-dave
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Last edited by dlavery : 05-20-2012 at 01:23 AM.
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Unread 05-19-2012, 10:42 PM
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Re: 2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

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Originally Posted by dlavery View Post
While I fully appreciate many of the other comments that have been made, I do need to correct this one. Bill Miller's statements were completely accurate. Well before Will and the BEPs were even a factor in the 2011 Championship planning, the plan was to have two of the division fields in the pits area. I am absolutely certain about this, I was there when the plans were being discussed. There are many things that can be learned from the last two years of Championship events, and the full competition seasons. However, this is not an item that needs to be added to the list.

-dave
What was originally planned for the space that they put the stage in?
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