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Unread 07-16-2012, 11:16 PM
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Exclamation Sabotage

So the Einstein report has been out for an entire weekend now and I think everyone has had a chance to digest it a bit. Yes, there was some foul play, but also many other factors. It is quite unfortunate that it happened the way it happened, but we're all learning from it and moving forward.

While cruising the interwebs, I came across this video.

I'm still rolling on the floor. I think it would do everyone good to take a moment and have a good laugh. Perhaps the Brothers will play this on Friday at IRI??

Upon further investigation, I also stumbled across this photo album...

What is Dean Simmons and the Kamen Brothers up to????

I can't wait to find out...See you at the show!
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Last edited by Kevin Kolodziej : 07-17-2012 at 07:41 AM.
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Unread 07-16-2012, 11:25 PM
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Re: Sabotage

I find this a bit insensitive to the victims of the attack. I do not expect to be alone in this opinion, especially when esteemed members of our community, such as Karthik, have made it very clear that they are not taking this issue lightly. While it would be nice to be able to laugh right now, the situation is still raw. It doesn't strike a good chord with me, and even as I hope that we can reach a time when this issue is not so painful, I think making light of it is over the line.

P.S. I do not want to put words in Karthik's mouth. I have great respect for the opinions he has conveyed elsewhere, and I am forming my own, here, which may be much in parallel with what he has said. I have merely chosen to provide an example of someone who has made a related (yet more eloquent) remark on another sub-issue within this vast set of circumstances.
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Last edited by Ekcrbe : 07-17-2012 at 12:41 AM.
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Unread 07-16-2012, 11:42 PM
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Re: Sabotage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekcrbe View Post
I find this a bit insensitive to the victims of the attack. I do not expect to be alone in this opinion, especially when esteemed members of our community, such as Karthik, have made it very clear that they are not taking this issue lightly. While it would be nice to be able to laugh right now, the situation is still raw. It doesn't strike a good chord with me, and even as I hope that we can reach a time when this issue is not so painful, I think making light of it is over the line.
I'm sorry to hear you feel this way about it. Yes it sucks what happened; however, we cannot change the past. We can only look into the future and plan to prevent what has happened. For now though, enjoy a little comic relief and save yourself the stress of what has happened.
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Unread 07-16-2012, 11:53 PM
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Re: Sabotage

Boy, I wish I were going to IRI this year to maybe catch a glimpse of this fabled musical experience.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 12:02 AM
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Re: Sabotage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekcrbe View Post
I find this a bit insensitive to the victims of the attack. I do not expect to be alone in this opinion, especially when esteemed members of our community, such as Karthik, have made it very clear that they are not taking this issue lightly. While it would be nice to be able to laugh right now, the situation is still raw. It doesn't strike a good chord with me, and even as I hope that we can reach a time when this issue is not so painful, I think making light of it is over the line.
As I would expect Karthik to. He had a direct interest in the outcome of those matches and to have that tampered with would not sit well with me either if it were my team. However, its not about winning or losing and it never has been. All of the Einstein teams have much to be proud of for simply getting to that point. Consider this: A half inch shift on the bridge and 67, 2826, and 4143 are the Archimedes representatives and not the Eh Team. Would Karthik feel the same way if he experienced this from the sidelines? Only the man himself can answer that, but it has no bearing on my opinion - why should it affect yours? Get some rest and try to enjoy it again tomorrow!
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Unread 07-17-2012, 12:08 AM
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Re: Sabotage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekcrbe View Post
I find this a bit insensitive to the victims of the attack. I do not expect to be alone in this opinion, especially when esteemed members of our community, such as Karthik, have made it very clear that they are not taking this issue lightly. While it would be nice to be able to laugh right now, the situation is still raw. It doesn't strike a good chord with me, and even as I hope that we can reach a time when this issue is not so painful, I think making light of it is over the line.
While I partially agree with you, don't forget that some highly esteemed members of our community made this song/video too. Just saying.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 12:11 AM
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Re: Sabotage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnabel View Post
I'm sorry to hear you feel this way about it. Yes it sucks what happened; however, we cannot change the past. We can only look into the future and plan to prevent what has happened. For now though, enjoy a little comic relief and save yourself the stress of what has happened.
I am all for looking forward and being proactive to prevent a repeat performance in the future, but I find it very disrespectful to mock the teams that had a fair chance at winning on Einstein taken from them by one person who does not hold him/herself to the high standards of FIRST. I think that letting the whole ordeal fade from public view, at whatever pace it may take, would let the affected teams have more proper closure. We should also avoid bashing the perpetrator for the sake of his/her former team members, who don't need to be reminded of the shame likely coming to them once their identity is known.
I don't want to start a threadlong argument, so I rest my case.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 12:25 AM
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Re: Sabotage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Kolodziej View Post
As I would expect Karthik to. He had a direct interest in the outcome of those matches and to have that tampered with would not sit well with me either if it were my team. However, its not about winning or losing and it never has been. All of the Einstein teams have much to be proud of for simply getting to that point. Consider this: A half inch shift on the bridge and 67, 2826, and 4143 are the Archimedes representatives and not the Eh Team. Would Karthik feel the same way if he experienced this from the sidelines? Only the man himself can answer that, but it has no bearing on my opinion - why should it affect yours? Get some rest and try to enjoy it again tomorrow!
And if we hadn't died in Newton Finals 1, and then 548, 118, and 2194 had fallen off the bridge in Finals 2, we could have been in their place. That's not the point. I watched Einstein from the stands, and I'm upset for them.

And it is kind of about winning or losing, but even more about winning or losing fairly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post
While I partially agree with you, don't forget that some highly esteemed members of our community made this song/video too. Just saying.
Touche. That's VERY hard for me to say in most cases.
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Last edited by Ekcrbe : 07-17-2012 at 12:41 AM.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 12:29 AM
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Re: Sabotage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post
While I partially agree with you, don't forget that some highly esteemed members of our community made this song/video too. Just saying.
This. It's meant to be a simple lighthearted view of the situation. Laughter is the best medicine. I, for one, am really healthy after this video. That was a lame way to put it.


I wish I was going to IRI to catch the live debut of this song. And I really wanna over analyze the Sgt. Pepper cover for secrets...
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Unread 07-17-2012, 06:22 AM
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Re: Sabotage

Well, shows what I know...

Ozzy Kamen's ability to emulate Ad Rock's...distinctive...sound, I think it's a good thing. I don't think this is a topic that should necessarily be brushed aside or forgotten, and things like this spread the word across a group that doesn't always get (or read) FIRST emails. Start rapping about sabotage or have some odd iPhone wallpaper, and you create opportunities to tell the story again.

Of course nobody in FIRST thinks this is a joke, and there are some that have grounds to be even less amused. (I know I wasn't reading the report.) But for all the high costs of Einstein this year (not just financial ones, either), we need to ensure the message reaches down to all the nooks and crannies.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 07:43 AM
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Re: Sabotage

In my experience, I've found that being outraged on behalf of others is often a misuse of energy.

This is a calculated risk by DSK. As a topical parody act, there is a level of expectation that they will tackle this issue. This isn't their first foray into controversial issues ("No students built that robot!" comes hilariously to mind). I'd wager they ran this idea past the 12 teams before making it public.

As far as loss goes - some teams missed a fair chance at getting a blue banner. Three exceptional and deserving teams earned a blue banner. Net loss in overall team blue-bannerage: 0.

Let's look at DSK - namely the lead singer, Ozzy. What happened at STL and throughout the season was, in a word, embarrassing. The livelihood of Ozzy, his family, his friends and their families depend on FIRST not being embarrassing, and on Ozzy's establishing and maintaining great relationships with hundreds of teams and suppliers. As far as losses go, I'd say members of DSK stand to lose the most by the Einstein debacle, and by treating it inappropriately. If they're willing to look back with a bit of humor, good on them. They need healing too. To them, this isn't blue banners to hang on the wall - it's food on their kids' plates.

For those that were directly involved in the events that happened in April, you certainly have every right to be outraged, for an indefinite amount of time. As one of the major players said, it sucks, and it sucks big time, and it will never not suck. But let's let people determine their own reactions, and let's not get indignant at a comedy act when it does something funny.
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Last edited by Taylor : 07-17-2012 at 01:26 PM.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 08:04 AM
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Re: Sabotage

I'm just grateful that the band could pick themselves up off the ground without splitting their pants.

Have a great concert at IRI, guys!

Jane
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Unread 07-17-2012, 08:25 AM
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Re: Sabotage

One thing I'd like to point out: the song is a very angry song, and the lyrics were written to match that anger. The song is definitely intended to convey a sense of anger that was felt by the community.

The video, on the other hand, is something completely different. If you're familiar with the original, the Beastie Boys wrote a very angry song and set a really funny video behind it (a parody of 70's cop dramas). The concept of angry song / funny video is kind of weird to me, tbh. The band thought it would be fun to do a parody of the original video, making it a parody of a parody. Of course it had to be really whacky and outlandish, because that's how DSK usually rolls.

If you think that laughter is the best medicine, then enjoy the video. Getting someone to smile when they're down can be helpful.

If you feel you're not ready to smile and you have some anger and frustration to let out, then cover the top 3/4 of the video (or scroll so you only see the bottom) and let it out by screaming along to the words on the bottom. Angry music can be therapeutic as well.
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Unread 07-17-2012, 09:14 AM
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Re: Sabotage

Chris, your post made me think this:

DSK is edgy and makes a point by being very cool, very nerdy, and very edgy - all at the same time. It's that brilliance factor.

Jane
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Unread 07-17-2012, 10:20 AM
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Re: Sabotage

Rage.

That's what the song conveys - according to my wife. She overheard it while getting ready for work this AM. She wasn't watching and she doesn't want to hear it again. (No offense to DSK's musicality intended)

As Chris says, blocking out the video eliminates any comedic sense to "Sabotage." There is nothing funny about what happened on Einstein.

"Why?!"

This is what the FRC community is really struggling with. The individual who did this has scarred us. Maybe he didn't think about that or didn't care. If he comes out and offers an explanation, it most likely won't be very satisfying. Is "just to prove a point" going to sit well with anyone?

"Resignation" might be all we'll ever hear from this individual.
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