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Unread 02-24-2003, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by adunakin
"The object of the team is not to design, build and compete a robot, it is to design, build and compete students." If after four years we have opened a student's eyes to the infinite possibilities they have in their life, it is worth all the effort.
Ooo, I like that. Mind if I use it?
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Unread 02-24-2003, 02:47 PM
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WELL SAID.

[quote]Originally posted by Ken L
[b]The best way isn't to say "no please don't do this anymore", but to set an example of what's right.

There are plenty of us making posts that say "this is what Gracious professionalism is all about", and "you shouldn't critize others needlessly"
=======================

WELL SAID AND I AGREED.
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Unread 02-25-2003, 08:40 AM
Eric Reed Eric Reed is offline
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I've been involved in a lot of different orgnizations. Some I've joined at the beginning, others I've joined after they've already got off the ground. I've noticed that it doesn't matter at what point I join, after a couple of years I inevitably get the feeling that things aren't quite as good as they were when I started.

I have a feeling that this is not really based in reality. I think, as many have said, that it is just that new people continue to come on board. They have the same sophomoric attitude that I had, and make the same mistakes I did, but somehow I forgot about them.

So now I think I have a handle on where this feeling comes from. I take it as just a reminder that we have to be a little tolerant of newcomers, and that we have to lead them to the ideals of the group...nobody comes on board knowing what this is all about.

MY 2c

Eric.
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Unread 02-25-2003, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eric Reed

I have a feeling that this is not really based in reality. I think, as many have said, that it is just that new people continue to come on board. They have the same sophomoric attitude that I had, and make the same mistakes I did, but somehow I forgot about them.


Eric.
You know what? You are exactly right. When a person first joins this organization, they have that sophomoric attidtude. They don't worry about ship dates and money and competition, they just really don't care all that much. They sit around, enjoying time with their friends, and love FIRST. It is addictive. Then, as they grow older, get some experience, they start to feel the pressure of it all. Some, like myself, get thrown into team leadership and have to worry about these things, and it becomes a job. I'm not complaining, these are my moments, I love the stress and the strain of it all. I revel in it. But, to some, they just don't want to be in it anymore, because in growing "mature" they also grow more stressed and question their involvment. Now, to all of you who look down upon the immature people on your team: If these immature newbies to FIRST do even a little work each day, they are the true embodiment(sp?) of FIRST. They, in being immature and having fun with their friends, are more a part of what FIRST is supposed to be in the spirit sense. So when you look down your noses at them, remember the time when you were just like them, and you truly enjoyed the experience that your mentors, sponsors, and FIRST staff strive to give you each year.
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Unread 02-25-2003, 09:24 AM
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It's a competiton. We can brag and debate if we want. But when it gets down to the competition and Team X won't lend Team Y a tool because they are rivals, they had a fight on CD, etc, then the sprit of FIRST has changed and needs to be brought back.
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Unread 02-26-2003, 01:30 AM
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I used to feel that there may very well have been a massive change in the attitude of FIRST in the past couple of years. However, I made several observations when contemplating this idea. In this thread and in general. most of what we are talking about here happens on CD. While CD is huge and has about 3,500 members, the FIRST community has more than 30,000. That means that about 10-11% of the people involved in FIRST are on CD. Of those, my guess is that only about 2% at the most are the ones causing a lot of the trouble. That means that maybe 70 people on a bad day are bashing and fighting with each other. My point is this: while the attitude on CD may have seemed to change, we should not get discouraged about FIRST in general because the actions of a few who truly do not understand the meaning of gracious professionalism do NOT reflect the views of the vast majority of FIRSTers who embrace it wholeheartedly. If we base our observations of a large organization, such as FIRST, based on the actions of a few, we miss the bigger picture, that FIRST is helping thousands of people succeed.

Anyway, that’s just my opinion!
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Unread 02-26-2003, 07:34 AM
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I have to agree that things aren't gracious anymore!

I think I have to agree that things aren't very gracious anymore, the other day myself and another member from our team were browsing through the forums. We saw a discussion on a rookie robot. This team butsed their butts just as hard as any team out there, but the veteran teams instantly tore them apart. I mean it's the team's first year and they were obviously proud of their accomplishments, but there was not one good post about their machine. Everyone was commenting on how sloppy it was or whatever. I just think it was very rude! Things like that are what is going to kill FIRST! I hope alot of teams read this post and maybe think to themselves about the real meaning of FIRST! I have been involved for 7 years now and I would have never thought I'd be reading such nasty posts about a machine!

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Unread 02-26-2003, 09:50 PM
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Yes it is in the bitter end a competition, but it is about much more than winning. It is about learning science and technology, and developing a group in to a team that can work and have fun together. For one team to refuse to help another because they are "rivals" is wrong. (at least in the pits on the playing field it may be different) In 2001 when Beatty Hammond (team 71) beat us and went on to win, sure I was disappointed that my team couldn't have that glory again, but still I was happy for them that they found a way to play the game so elegantly. Also earlier in the year we were in the same hotel, and happened to have a joining room, my door was open until probably 2-3 in the morning talking to them and having a good time with other participants.
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Andy Baker used me as a positve example at nationals in 2004!!!!!(Now who is the role model DJ????)

I was looking to start a team for my college for next year, but they got hooked up with a local JR High school doing BEST Robotics competition. Has anyone heard of this?
I was previously on the Technokats from 1998- 2002.
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Unread 02-27-2003, 09:42 AM
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Re: I have to agree that things aren't gracious anymore!

Quote:
Originally posted by camtunkpa
I think I have to agree that things aren't very gracious anymore... We saw a discussion on a rookie robot... I hope alot of teams read this post and maybe think to themselves about the real meaning of FIRST! Cliff
Team #222
I think all members who read this forum need to keep in mind that the opinions of a few do not a trend make. Everyone of us in their rookie year, had a robot that is a far distant relative of what we have now. Therefore all rookie and struggling teams for that matter need our support. "Gracious Professionalism" in it's purest form means we are all on the same team. As such we are obligated to help when needed, offer help when the occasion arises, cheer for others, and compete to the best of our ability with all teams, rivals and friends alike. We have told teams that we have helped in the past "don't hold back if we come against you in the future." The one rule that showed that up that has changed is the ability to call time outs. When an opposition robot was broken, the competitors frequently tacked on their timeout to the broken teams timeout to have all help get that robot back into competition.
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Unread 02-27-2003, 12:27 PM
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This is my second year in FIRST. Last year I volunteered to help at the Canadian Regional. To help with our organizing a new regional I travelled down to Cleveland to observe my first event. I was hooked! Why? I was really amazed by the kids at the event. Here I was a 48 year old being approached and helped by everybody I met. I saw teams helping other teams and sharing ideas. At the Canadian Regional I took a week off work to help. The attitude from day one with setup was great. Everyone was willing to role up their sleeves and help. During competion one teams battery was dead in finals and the opposite alliance provided a charged battery so they could continue. Is GP dead? I don't think so. I was so moved last year that I joined a team this year as a rookie mentor and have learned a great deal. This year I will be announcing at 3 events and observing at 1 more. I believe that FIRST has a lot to give but a lot more to offer. As in life you get out of something what you put into it.
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Unread 02-27-2003, 03:19 PM
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So it isn't just me that noticed this.

Rookie teams/rookie people are bringing a computer game mentality to FIRST: the trash talking, the lack of grammar and punctiation: if anyone here has played computer games on the internet, you'll instantly see the comparisons I draw here.

It's up to veteran teams and mentors to help keep the original spirit of FIRST alive.

I will make my contribution: one post per day, at least, to spread the FIRST spirit.

I remember back in the days when I used to meet people here and talk to them on AIM. I'm going to start IMing people again.

I agree with Ken L. and the others about what has happened, and I don't think it is anything we can prevent...only correct with time and patience.

If these people don't fit in on these MB's, they will change thier attitudes, or quit. It's up to us to make these boards exemplify the FIRST principals in every post.

--Ben
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Unread 02-27-2003, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Rookie teams/rookie people are bringing a computer game mentality to FIRST: the trash talking, the lack of grammar and punctiation: if anyone here has played computer games on the internet, you'll instantly see the comparisons I draw here.
Yeah but you can chalk that up to the internet. People all over use elite slang, haxor, and short hand. People come here and they think things are the same here but they are not.
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Unread 02-28-2003, 06:15 PM
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This is also my fourth year, and I have to say I've seen a noticeable change, especially at nationals. FIRST has gotten so big I think a lot of teams are losing sight of the real goal. Add this in to the fact the pressure is on to qualify for nationals for roughly half the teams. The slow economy is also making life a lot more difficult for a lot of teams. I feel FIRST is going through some pretty strong growing pains right now. The way I see it is the exponential growth we've been seeing will have to slow down a lot eventually (only so much money and high schools to go around). Hopefully the veteran teams (although some of us veteran teams can be taught a lesson or two by the rookies) will be able to help the newer teams get it.
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Unread 03-04-2003, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Hamilton
[b]The way I see it is the exponential growth we've been seeing will have to slow down a lot eventually (only so much money and high schools to go around). [b]
Speaking of.. Something I've thought about every time Dean says "Bring more schools to FIRST".. In just the U.S., what would happen if every single high school in the country had a FIRST team??? It would be great exposure because the public just couldn't escape us and a lot of peopl would learn from a good set of expereinces, but on the other hand, would there be enough sponsors to fund us???
As a team with limited to no support from our school's administration financially or otherwise, would sponsors alone keep us or other teams like us afloat??? Or would we see more teams join FIRST for a year or two and then disappear from the robotics radar completely?
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Unread 03-04-2003, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by soezgg
Boastful, overconfident, arrogant, RUDE, disrespectful.

realize also, this is ON THE INTERENT. people can be more rude here than in real life because they dont directly affect them.

i can be a real ? online, because i dont have to look you in the face.

in real life however, im usually quite nicer.

but...anyway.
well, there is a saying that goes "True character can only be seen when others can't see you at all" I dont mean this to be a personal attack, but many people seem to feel that they can act however they want, without any reprecussions. I personally wish everyone would relax a little and try to remember another term that woody and dean brought into being- "coopertition" this means that you do everything to help your opponents, while staying competitive yourself. It doesnt mean you should only be nice whenlooking someone in the eye, you should strive to be that all the time. being rude and disrespectful simply dont fit into FIRSt in any way.
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