OCCRA
Go to Post It's that science and technology inspiration stuff - never know where it'll take you. :) - JaneYoung [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Events   CD-Media   CD-Spy   FRC-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2003, 01:43 PM
Unsung FIRST Hero
JVN JVN is offline
VEX Robotics Engineer
AKA: John Vielkind-Neun
FRC #0148 (Robowranglers)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Greenville, Tx
Posts: 3,106
JVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond repute
FIRST vs. Engineering?

I was pondering this the other night, and I'm wondering if anyone else has any thoughts on it.

If you really enjoy participating in the FIRST robotics competition, and you get really into it, does it mean you want to do engineering? Or does it mean you just want to do FIRST all your life?

I've been trying to figure this out. I'm sure I like engineering, and I look forward to being an engineer (probably STILL doing FIRST) but I know other people who haven't made this decision.

What do you think?
__________________
In the interest of full disclosure: I work for VEX Robotics a subsidiary of Innovation First International (IFI).
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2003, 01:51 PM
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
back to school ;-)
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 7,844
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
A while back I wanted to be an engineer but now I've realized how much high-level math it uses and I've been starting to get sick of math. FIRST is the perfect thing for me. I can't think of anything to better occupy my time than building robots. Machining is really cool too and it's not very hard to learn.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004

Support Team 696 on DonorsChoose!
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2003, 02:23 PM
Richard Wallace's Avatar
Richard Wallace Richard Wallace is offline
I live for the details.
FRC #3620 (Average Joes)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Southwestern Michigan
Posts: 2,754
Richard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond repute
It's bigger than engineering

I think FIRST does much more than just inspire some kids to study engineering in college. It teaches us all, even the old ones like me, to work with the time, talents, tools, and things that are available to us, to attack a challenge as a team. Of course technics is the central theme, but just as each person on a team brings a different contribution, each person takes away a unique lesson.

It is important to celebrate science and technology, because as Woody Flowers has said so many times, "we get the best of what we celebrate." But that celebration does not always lead to becoming an engineer, scientist, technician, machinist, mechanic, etc. It can also lead to becoming a better journalist, entrepenuer, artist, pilot, veterinarian, teacher,...(insert your favorite career here), than you would have been without the FIRST experience.
__________________
Richard
Whirlpool Corporation, Benton Harbor, Michigan
Mentor since 2011 for FRC 3620 Average Joes (St. Joseph, Michigan)
Mentor since 2002 for FRC 931 Perpetual Chaos (St. Louis, Missouri)
since 2003


I believe in intuition and inspiration. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research.
(Cosmic Religion : With Other Opinions and Aphorisms (1931) by Albert Einstein, p. 97
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2003, 03:32 PM
Aaron Lussier's Avatar
Aaron Lussier Aaron Lussier is offline
Volunteer for hire
no team
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 881
Aaron Lussier is a splendid one to beholdAaron Lussier is a splendid one to beholdAaron Lussier is a splendid one to beholdAaron Lussier is a splendid one to beholdAaron Lussier is a splendid one to beholdAaron Lussier is a splendid one to beholdAaron Lussier is a splendid one to behold
Re: FIRST vs. Engineering?

Quote:
Originally posted by JVN
If you really enjoy participating in the FIRST robotics competition, and you get really into it, does it mean you want to do engineering? Or does it mean you just want to do FIRST all your life?

This question really got me thinking, Do I compete in FIRST for the fun?, the Excitement?, the Trails and tribulations of building a robot?, or do I do it so I can become an engineer and think of cool stuff...? I belive that I have come to a good answer, When I first joined FIRST I thought "man I love this I'm gonna be an engineer" after two years of doing it I still want to be an engineer, but I also have noticed other things FIRST has helped me with other parts of my life too, I'm more organized, I speak better in front of people, I speak better too people. I can multi task like nobodys business and plus I have made friends that I'm gonna have for the rest of my life. All in all even if I dont go into Engineering I still have learned skills and tatics that I'm someday going to teach other students much like my self. I truly love FIRST and where ever I go, I will either find a team, to be on or If I need to make a team.

Now that I finished writing I'm not even sure that I answered the questions asked... oh well, I guess thats just how I feel about it
__________________
Team 151 Student/Mentor 2001-2004
US Navy 2005 -2009
Volunteer 2010 - ???
Field Reset Extraordinaire
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2003, 04:01 PM
soezgg soezgg is offline
AKA: Harry Miller
#0639 (The Rude Awakening)
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The Army
Posts: 119
soezgg can only hope to improve
Send a message via AIM to soezgg Send a message via Yahoo to soezgg
I think my past experience has made me want to do engineering AND participate in FIRST for the rest of my life.

I think we all know why.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2003, 10:15 PM
Bruce C.'s Avatar
Bruce C. Bruce C. is offline
Registered User
#0647 (The Cyber Wolf Corps)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Killeen, Texas
Posts: 65
Bruce C. will become famous soon enough
I Decided

FIRST wasn't around back then, but I decided in High School, back in the '60's, that I wanted to be an engineer. So I did. Went to Clarkson, as a matter of fact, BSEE 1970. It was a good thing.

Now, 33 years later, it's still a good thing. Although I picked up a couple of MBAs in the '80's, I still consider myself as primarily an engineer, and really enjoy working with FIRST. Science and technology is mostly FUN. And the math isn't really that bad (I can say that now, but please don't ask me to solve a partial differential problem right away, without some brushing up.)

If you think designing the robots is as much fun as building them, go for engineering.

Regards,
Bruce C.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2003, 11:18 PM
Chris's Avatar
Chris Chris is offline
So apparently it hangs......
AKA: Chris Carnevale
FRC #0177
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Vernon, CT
Posts: 231
Chris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond reputeChris has a reputation beyond repute
As the one john is talking about in the post, i've pondered this question tons. I'm a freshman mechie at Clarkson, with a 3.19 GPA and Assitant Team leader/Stratgey Head on the FIRST team. I'm a firster to the last, i pulled 7 allnighters with Mono during the 6 weeks because i wanted to see our bot completed to its full potential. But having not entered any engineering classes yet i'm not convinced engineering is for me, but i also have no idea what i would like to switch to.
This question haunts me sometimes, but i guess we'll see where i end up.

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-03-2003, 01:11 AM
George1902's Avatar
George1902 George1902 is offline
It's a SPAM thing...
AKA: George1083; George180
FRC #0180 (SPAM)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Stuart, FL
Posts: 749
George1902 has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge1902 has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge1902 has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge1902 has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge1902 has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge1902 has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge1902 has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge1902 has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge1902 has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge1902 has a reputation beyond reputeGeorge1902 has a reputation beyond repute
to me, the root of this issue is this: What is FIRST?

i get asked this question all the time by lots of different people, and here's the answer i give.

in high school, if you really like athletics, you can play football, baseball or such. if you like music you can be in marching or concert band. if you like english you can be in journalism. what is there for the kids who like math and science? really, there are only so many quiz bowl competitions a kid can handle. so, there's FIRST, an extra curricular activity for cultivating math and science.

now to answer your question more directly, does being in FIRST mean you want to be an engineer? most certainly not! my experience in FIRST is probably the reason i'm *NOT* in school for engineering now. i saw what the job entailed and decided that it wasn't what i wanted to do with my life.

i got something totally different from my FIRST experience. to me the spirit of FIRST is all about sharing. during the 6 week build period, you share yourself with the 5, 10, 20, or 50 other people on your team. at the competition, you share your creation with everyone who watches your 'bot play the game. and the whole while we're involved in this concept of sharing called gracious professionalism. so, i took that to heart and decided to share knowlege for a living. i'm in school now to be a high school math teacher.

so... um... where was i? oh yeah... so, no. of course you don't have to be in engineering or even like engineering if you like FIRST. i think the thing to do is to find what it is about FIRST that you like so much and find a way to get paid for doing that the rest of your life.

someone really smart once said, "If you find a job you love, you'll never work a day in your life."
__________________
George

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
-- Mahatma Gandhi
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-03-2003, 09:02 AM
ChrisH's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
ChrisH ChrisH is offline
Generally Useless
FRC #0330 (Beach 'Bots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 1,218
ChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by George1083
now to answer your question more directly, does being in FIRST mean you want to be an engineer? most certainly not! my experience in FIRST is probably the reason i'm *NOT* in school for engineering now. i saw what the job entailed and decided that it wasn't what i wanted to do with my life.
Sometimes finding out what the answer is not, is just as valuable as finding what it is. Our team is focused on helping our students find their "calling" in life. For some of them it is Engineering of some sort, for others it may be Graphics or /holds nose/ Journalism or /gets gas mask/ Law. We really don't care too much about where they wind up, as long as they are doing something useful. It's just that much easier if it is somethjing they are well suited to and enjoy.

Quote:
Originally posted by George1083
someone really smart once said, "If you find a job you love, you'll never work a day in your life."
This is so true, well time to go back to playing at building airplanes.
__________________
Christopher H Husmann, PE

"Who is John Galt?"
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-03-2003, 09:18 AM
Unsung FIRST Hero
Amanda Morrison Amanda Morrison is offline
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.
FRC #0148 (Robowranglers)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,171
Amanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond reputeAmanda Morrison has a reputation beyond repute
I really think that FIRST inspires some to go into engineering fields and some to stay involved with the organization. It all depends on the person and where their interests lie.

Personally, I am terrible in math and science. I have never had technical inclinations, and I've had no previous experience dealing with any of the typical robot components. To be honest, I'm an English/Journalism major.

A lot of people ask me if I plan on going into engineering, science, and technology based on my mentorship of the Muncie, IN team. Some of my teachers can't fathom my involvement with the team, and I get a lot of confused looks when I try to explain.

All I can really say is that I got involved in FIRST, I had a great mentor, and I wish that I could be half the mentor he was. On a not-so-technical aspect, I think that's one of the underlying themes of FIRST.
__________________
VEX Robotics, Inc.
A Division of Innovation First International
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-03-2003, 09:50 AM
Joe Matt's Avatar
Joe Matt Joe Matt is offline
Reject False Icons
no team
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: CLE
Posts: 5,065
Joe Matt has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Matt has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Matt has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Matt has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Matt has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Matt has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Matt has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Matt has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Matt has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Matt has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Matt has a reputation beyond repute
Doing FIRST dosn't mean engineering. There is still other Science and Technolog carieers that don't fit.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-03-2003, 01:06 PM
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 9,957
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisH
[b]Sometimes finding out what the answer is not, is just as valuable as finding what it is. /B]
No doubt about it. As mentors or teachers we are just as successful with students who decide engineering or science is not for them. That is why Wildstang puts emphasis on other sub teams as well. If you don't like drilling holes and getting dirty then maybe you like web design or fundraising or video editing. Perhaps t-shirt design, or yearbook authoring, or public relations is more your bag. If you graduate and didn't like anything about FIRST, you will have at least eliminated 10-20 career choices from your list that won't need to be investigated.
For me, there is no doubt that it helps my work by training me to look at things differently, think outside the box and communicate better with people who initially don't understand what I am saying. (Did you ever try to explain a 60 input, 48 track recording console to an underwriter for a cooking show?)

Sanddrag, the math isn't that hard. It's just a tool, like a screwdriver or soldering iron. Sure you get tired of picking up the same old thing everyday, but when you have to tighten a screw you still reach for the screwdriver. Don't let something like that hold you back. There are careers that you can pursue that may not have a dependence on math if you really don't like it. Check with your guidance counselor.
As for Chris's quote, it's a good one, I have always said this..."If you can get a job doing what you like, great! If they pay you then that is even better!"
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
All is better now, NOS parts are working fine. Why does this year's game remind me of Violet in Willie Wonka? Hmmmm, I see blueberries!
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-03-2003, 02:16 PM
ZACH P. ZACH P. is offline
Insert Custom User Title
#0321 (Robolancers)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Philly!!
Posts: 228
ZACH P. is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to ZACH P.
i know i pretty much always wanted to be an engineer, and i built robots by myself, so i thought First would be a good opportunity to learn, to help others, and to have fun doing it. so for me First is a product of wanting to be an engineer.
__________________
pi is exactly 3

IM me at: zmstr265
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-03-2003, 03:10 PM
unixfreak unixfreak is offline
Registered User
#0401 (Hokie Guard)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Christainsburg
Posts: 13
unixfreak is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to unixfreak Send a message via Yahoo to unixfreak
engineering or not?

When I first started Robotics my freshman year in HS,
I enjoyed Robotics and what I did in it so much, I said
to myself... If this is what I like to do, I must want to be
an engineer. And this year, My second year in
High School and Robotics, I started to think about what
engineering really is. I look at robotics, you do everything....
I look at engineering, and you mostly design and oversee others
that are doing the grunt work. Now, I may be wrong about this, but
that is the impression I get from people I know that are going into or
are already in Engineering. If Engineering was like first in the fact that you design, build, and everything, I would definatly be an Engineer. I definatly dont think just because your in robotics it means that you have to go into engineering. Thats my $ .02
__________________
Eric- "The Short Dude"
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-04-2003, 09:12 AM
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 9,957
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: engineering or not?

Quote:
Originally posted by unixfreak

I look at engineering, and you mostly design and oversee others that are doing the grunt work. Now, I may be wrong about this, but that is the impression I get from people I know that are going into or are already in Engineering. If Engineering was like first in the fact that you design, build, and everything, I would definatly be an Engineer. I definatly dont think just because your in robotics it means that you have to go into engineering. Thats my $ .02
What you describe is true for large companies because it is more efficient, but smaller companies require more of their engineers. And certainly, engineers must work on prototypes and production testing, etc. If you think you want to perform any of these, I challenge you to talk to other engineers and use your school resources to check on other engineering careers. Use the Internet and watch for career days at local colleges where you can talk to employers. Don't let the frustrations of a few engineers determine your life for you. And you are right, if you like robotics, being an engineer might not be exactly right for you, but there are hundreds of careers that will support engineering and many are technically related. My degree is in Electronic Engineering and Technology, EET, and was designed to bridge the gap between theoretical engineering and real world production. (i.e. take what the EE designed and work out the bugs for production and sales.) What I accidentally wound up in is Broadcast Engineering. I am part of the "Broadcast Maintenance and Design Group" of a television station in Chicago and I maintain, design and install all equipment used by the station from microphones through video recorders and up to the transmitter. Be patient and keep your mind open, you will find something that suits you. Please plan on going on to some form of education following high school. Keep your grades up now and it will pay off for you when you do come to a decision.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
All is better now, NOS parts are working fine. Why does this year's game remind me of Violet in Willie Wonka? Hmmmm, I see blueberries!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battlebots I.Q.- A serious threat to FIRST or a half thought up cheep copy? Joe Matt General Forum 75 10-17-2005 07:43 PM
Full list of teams & competitions archiver 2001 14 06-23-2002 11:52 PM
High School Courses for Mechanical/Civil Engineering archiver 2000 9 06-23-2002 11:12 PM
Engineering vs. Engineering Technology archiver 2000 4 06-23-2002 11:07 PM
Mechanical Engineering archiver 2000 0 06-23-2002 11:04 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:13 PM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi