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View Poll Results: The manual will be cracked in...?
A few Minutes. 10 7.58%
A few hours. 24 18.18%
Never. 41 31.06%
FIRSTers have to high a moral ground and will wait until Saturday (where's the fun in that!!) 57 43.18%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-08-2004, 10:03 PM
Eric Brummer Eric Brummer is offline
there's 95% ...
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

... the title of this post is rather.... questionable, but how many people on these forums that consider themselves above average computer users DIDN'T consider the idea that... encryption is possible to circumvent. As soon as I heard about the early pdf release, my thought was, "i wonder what they are using to protect it." FIRST is made up of people that were once just like us or still are like us. We are a community of intellectuals that generally see a challenge and attempt to overcome it. Thats the very point of every game we play. Disregarding whether its allowed on the forums or not, cause that is solely up to the admins, I was wondering when this discussion would come up. The game is the game. I wouldn't, and I dont recall reading any post before mine that directly talked about using the information to gain an advantage. There were some various good arguments, for both sides, which I won't bother quoting cause their are way to many. I don't really see somethign wrong in discussing it. Yes, the rules pdf is the target of this discussion, because everyone here is apart of a community of FIRST robotics. We aren't a cryptology group, so the idea didn't come up until we had a specific problem dangled in front of us. Obviously the manual is gonna be what is talked about in regards to 128 bit RSA encryption. I also don't think anyone could possibly do it before the data would be available to everyone. FIRST has underestimated us in the past, in the game, and i believe they vowed to try and avoid it again. They arn't going to give us something easy. Just like my first thought was.. I wonder how to overcome the security, the first thought at FIRST had to have been... how long will this document last with all of these people eagerly interested in it? It's not gonna happen. I really dont think its so much someone who is a genius that could crack it. Like many things, its about having the connections. You don't need as much intelligence as you need access to high-end computer equipment and some basic cryptology information. I know I wouldn't use the information, its just an intersting thought, and as someone else said, something definilty to brag about, especially if achieved before the code is released. It would be very satisfactory to have cracked it regardless of whether u saw a single page inside that pdf. It isn't a big issue though, since it's not going to happen. I believe, and it's rather obvious with how many people cried foul to this thread, that people here do have the moral views to not ruin the gracious profesionalism that FIRST stands for. As far as it not being able to be cracked... I doubt it, but like everything, you never know. "Never say never."
  #62   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-08-2004, 10:26 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hibner
Recently, FIRST was gettting a little upset about some of the activity on these boards, such as people trying to circumvent the rules.

There's nothing worse than when you try to help someone out and they take advantage of you. Along those lines, how about we not try and crack the manual and keep FIRST happy with all of us so they continue to do nice things for us in the future?

-Chris
I agree with Chris 10000%. I mean, the joking threads are perfectly fine imho, but if you do know something about the upcoming game.... please keep it to yourself. I'm positive some people know some parts of the game, but if they do know something... there's a reason behind that. When people get on things like ChiefDelphi, as someone said before... alot of people will see what YOU write. That's what's great about ChiefDelphi, you have your right to be heard and express yourself, but do it with respect to each other, and the league. You can have your "intellectual fun" with the manual decryption for all I care, but if you were to find the password... keep it that way... YOU find the password, not the entire CD community, or even your team for that matter.

Yes, kickoff is very exciting for us all... and I know I personally have put alot of time into writing my little "Introduction to Programming Guide" for FIRST, and I know that the people at FIRST have put MANY hours into planning this game. Sure it's fun to guess, but keep it that way... let others experience the surprise at kickoff. When you try to "crack the code" before the kickoff... your just not giving the credit to FIRST that you should.

Imagine that your building time is coming to an end, and then somebody were to go and release ALL of the work your team had done. The teams who got this material now have an advantage on you, because it's your work. Same scenario here, this is FIRST's "final week of building" They've worked for almost a year putting together everything for all of us to enjoy, the least we can do is wait till Saturday and enjoy whatever is presented before us.

I personally think this is the right time to put in my thanks to all of the FIRST employees and all groups that help support our program... as teammates we often get too into the craze of competition and forget that this wouldn't happen without so many dedicated people. On these forums, there are so many people that we see working all of the time to try to help teams out, and just overall good people. To everyone who does that, thanks.
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  #63   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-08-2004, 10:37 PM
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Re: The Manual will be cracked in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DucktapeRaptor
Just like my first thought was.. I wonder how to overcome the security, the first thought at FIRST had to have been... how long will this document last with all of these people eagerly interested in it? It's not gonna happen. I really dont think its so much someone who is a genius that could crack it. Like many things, its about having the connections. You don't need as much intelligence as you need access to high-end computer equipment and some basic cryptology information. I know I wouldn't use the information, its just an intersting thought, and as someone else said, something definilty to brag about, especially if achieved before the code is released. It would be very satisfactory to have cracked it regardless of whether u saw a single page inside that pdf.
If you want to crack an encryption, close your eyes, and smash gibberish into the keyboard and then try to decrypt it, don't do something that may throw of the balance of FIRST. I know you are not being malicious, and nobody would really try, and that cracking RSA 128 is quite impressive, but do it in a way that will not harm anyone. Heck, the people at FIRST are smart. Maybe they embedded some sort of algarithm to notify them if it is opened before kickoff the next time the person connects to the internet. Who knows? A challenge in trust maybe?

-Kesich

P.S. You just said "never."
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  #64   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-08-2004, 10:44 PM
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Re: The Manuall will be cracked in...

I think this topic has run its course. I've had a few requests to close it, and there are at least a few of us who feel that everybody has had a chance to chime in at least once with their thoughts.
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