OCCRA
Go to Post I wonder if the GDC had his extraordinary achievements in mind for the 2012 game. - MagiChau [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Events   CD-Media   CD-Spy   FRC-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-09-2004, 10:18 AM
Gadget470 Gadget470 is offline
A Fire Outside
AKA: Brandon Joerges
#0470 (Alpha Omega)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Berkley, MI
Posts: 999
Gadget470 is a jewel in the roughGadget470 is a jewel in the roughGadget470 is a jewel in the roughGadget470 is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via ICQ to Gadget470 Send a message via AIM to Gadget470
Cold Electricity?

I know it's been a long time since I have posted, mostly because I've chosen not to go into Engineering. But I came across an interesting news article that sparked some interest.

Google searching left me to no avail..

The article was about 3 Frat boys that are inventing a "Keg Wrap", an electric cooling blanket for kegs. While the use isn't the interesting thing to me, the technology is.
We all know to create heat with electricity, you must cause resistance in the current. But how, without fans, would it be possible to remove heat?

Long time no see, I'll be back for more..
Gadget
__________________

Ompha1oskepsis 118448018 bjoerges@gmail.com
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-09-2004, 10:32 AM
Chris Hibner's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Chris Hibner Chris Hibner is offline
Eschewing Obfuscation Since 1990
AKA: Lars Kamen's Roadie
FRC #0051 (Wings of Fire)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,395
Chris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Cold Electricity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadget470
I know it's been a long time since I have posted, mostly because I've chosen not to go into Engineering. But I came across an interesting news article that sparked some interest.

Google searching left me to no avail..

The article was about 3 Frat boys that are inventing a "Keg Wrap", an electric cooling blanket for kegs. While the use isn't the interesting thing to me, the technology is.
We all know to create heat with electricity, you must cause resistance in the current. But how, without fans, would it be possible to remove heat?

Long time no see, I'll be back for more..
Gadget
Heat removal is done by expanding a gas. This is how refrigerators and air conditioners work. You put gas into a cylinder and then pull back on a piston (like the opposite of what a compressor does). The expansion of the gas causes the temperature of the gas to drop. If you remember the ideal gas law from chemistry class, you can see the relationship.
__________________
-
An ounce of perception is worth a pound of obscure.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-09-2004, 10:35 AM
Nick Fury Nick Fury is offline
Registered User
#0900
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Durham, North Carolina
Posts: 31
Nick Fury has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Re: Cold Electricity?

The CPU overclocking community has been doing this for a while now:

http://www.overclockers.com/topiclis...1.asp#PELTIERS

They are called "Peltier" coolers and they use electricity to provide very low temperature "cold plates". I always thought it was a pretty cool idea myself too.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-09-2004, 11:02 AM
Kris Verdeyen's Avatar
Kris Verdeyen Kris Verdeyen is offline
LSR Emcee/Alamo Game Announcer
FRC #0118 (Robonauts)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 674
Kris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond reputeKris Verdeyen has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Cold Electricity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Fury
The CPU overclocking community has been doing this for a while now:

http://www.overclockers.com/topiclis...1.asp#PELTIERS

They are called "Peltier" coolers and they use electricity to provide very low temperature "cold plates". I always thought it was a pretty cool idea myself too.
Without fans, Peltier devices can't do much. The very best ones have a ratio of heat moved to energy applied of around 1. That means that for every watt that the device moves out of the keg, it will have to dissipate at least two watts of heat on the hot side, using a heat sink (with a fan, most likely) or some other means. It's better to just use an ice bath.

While we're on creative ways to cool beverages, check this one out, from sunny New Zealand:

http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/
__________________
...Only a few people are awake and they live in a state of constant total amazement. -JP Shanley, Joe vs. the Volcano
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-09-2004, 11:16 AM
Gadget470 Gadget470 is offline
A Fire Outside
AKA: Brandon Joerges
#0470 (Alpha Omega)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Berkley, MI
Posts: 999
Gadget470 is a jewel in the roughGadget470 is a jewel in the roughGadget470 is a jewel in the roughGadget470 is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via ICQ to Gadget470 Send a message via AIM to Gadget470
Re: Cold Electricity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hibner
Heat removal is done by expanding a gas. This is how refrigerators and air conditioners work. You put gas into a cylinder and then pull back on a piston (like the opposite of what a compressor does). The expansion of the gas causes the temperature of the gas to drop. If you remember the ideal gas law from chemistry class, you can see the relationship.
I'll dabble some research into the ideal gas law tonight. The article didn't say, I guess I assumed it was "wire-cooled". If I'm reading that right, it would basically have something like a fridge cooling system, just toned down for a keg?

Would this be silent (or relatively quiet)? I just can't picture how one would repetitivly expand a gas without releasing, unless the gas is standard air and is released back into the general air supply after each stroke.
__________________

Ompha1oskepsis 118448018 bjoerges@gmail.com
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-09-2004, 11:32 AM
Max Lobovsky's Avatar
Max Lobovsky Max Lobovsky is offline
Fold em oval!
FRC #1257 (Parallel Universe)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Posts: 1,026
Max Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to Max Lobovsky
Re: Cold Electricity?

As several people stated, this is using a Peltier cooler, not a conventional compressor based cooler.

If you are familiar with the function of a thermo couple, a peltier cooler isn't too hard to understand. A temperature gradient across two different metals (they have to have some a large difference in some electrical property, i'm not sure exactly) creates an electrical potential and that's how you can measure temperature. Reverse the situation, and an electrical potential induces a temperature difference.
__________________
Learn, edit, inspire: The FIRSTwiki.
Team 1257


2005 NYC Regional - 2nd seed, Xerox Creativity Award, Autodesk Visualization Award
2005 Chesapeake Regional - Engineering Inspiration Award
2004 Chesapeake Regional - Rookie Inspiration award
2004 NJ Regional - Team Spirit Award
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-09-2004, 12:02 PM
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 9,957
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Cold Electricity?

The Pell cells in earlier posts have been used for a number of years in portable coolers. You plug into the cigarette lighter in your car and the inside gets cold. Turn the power around and the inside gets hot. The cell is attached to a large heatsink that is molded into the outside of the cooler, no fan is needed. It is not an efficient way to get cool but it does fill a niche.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
All is better now, NOS parts are working fine. Why does this year's game remind me of Violet in Willie Wonka? Hmmmm, I see blueberries!
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-09-2004, 12:24 PM
Chris Hibner's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Chris Hibner Chris Hibner is offline
Eschewing Obfuscation Since 1990
AKA: Lars Kamen's Roadie
FRC #0051 (Wings of Fire)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,395
Chris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond reputeChris Hibner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Cold Electricity?

I didn't know that the new one used a Peltier cooler. I've seen ones in the past that used a small compressor.

-Chris
__________________
-
An ounce of perception is worth a pound of obscure.
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-09-2004, 06:54 PM
Unsung FIRST Hero Woodie Flowers Award
Chris Fultz Chris Fultz is offline
My Other Car is a 500 HP Turbine
FRC #0234 (Cyber Blue)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 1942
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,629
Chris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond reputeChris Fultz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Cold Electricity?

I read the linked articles - looks pretty cool.

But now the most important question - is there a practical application for one of these devices on a FIRST robot?
__________________
Chris Fultz
Cyber Blue - Team 234
2014! IRI Planning Committee - Co-Lead (yes, already planning).
2010 - Woodie Flowers Award - Championship
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-09-2004, 07:15 PM
phrontist's Avatar
phrontist phrontist is offline
Proto-Engineer
AKA: Bjorn Westergard
FRC #1418 (Vae Victus)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Falls Church, VA
Posts: 828
phrontist has a reputation beyond reputephrontist has a reputation beyond reputephrontist has a reputation beyond reputephrontist has a reputation beyond reputephrontist has a reputation beyond reputephrontist has a reputation beyond reputephrontist has a reputation beyond reputephrontist has a reputation beyond reputephrontist has a reputation beyond reputephrontist has a reputation beyond reputephrontist has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to phrontist
Talking Re: Cold Electricity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Fultz
I read the linked articles - looks pretty cool.

But now the most important question - is there a practical application for one of these devices on a FIRST robot?
A really hardcore motor tempurature regulator. You buy a few peliters fairly cheap (my friend has a bunch laying around for overclocking purposes) and make some sort of motor enclosure that allows for maximum peltier to motor contact and then it's just a matter of a few big fans and, hey, next thing you know you've got the coolest (no pun intended) drive train out there. You'd want a temp sensor to insure you aren't over-cooling the motors though...
__________________

University of Kentucky - Radio Free Lexington

"I would rather have a really big success or a really spectacular crash and failure then live out the warm eventual death of mediocrity" - Dean Kamen
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-09-2004, 07:18 PM
Billfred's Avatar
Billfred Billfred is offline
Survived year 1–year 2 comes quick!
AKA: @WmLeverette, @GarnetSq, @SCRIW...
FRC #4901 (Garnet Squadron); FLL #7016/7017 (Garnet Squadron Alfa/Bravo)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Columbi-YEAH!, SC
Posts: 7,528
Billfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Cold Electricity?

I'd imagine that it -could- be used on a FIRST robot for cooling motors some something in that vein...might be a bit simpler than handling dry ice for cooling (cough)firebirds (cough).

Whether we'd want to, or even need to, is really up to next year. It might be just about as simple to use a good heat sink and a muffin fan.
__________________
William "Billfred" Leverette - Gamecock/Jessica Boucher victim/Facebook-er
Billfred's World Tour: USC Kickoff Palmetto CMP Robot Rodeo Manchester Kickoff Florida Palmetto CMP Capital Clash USC Kickoff FVC Orangeburg Florida Peachtree Palmetto CMP Mission Mayhem Exploding Bacon Vex Event Duel on the Delaware CalGames USC Kickoff Florida Chesapeake Palmetto CMP BattleCry Mission Mayhem Brunswick Eruption 6 Clemson Kickoff Chesapeake Palmetto CMP IRI TNT Greenville Tech Scrimmage Bayou Palmetto CMP IRI GRITS TNT Bayou Palmetto CMP IRI Citadel Kickoff Peachtree Palmetto CMP IRI TNT SCRIW Citadel Kickoff Peachtree Palmetto Championship IRI SCRIW II Chapin Kickoff Palmetto South Florida IRI SCRIW III Chapin Kickoff SC FTC CMP Palmetto SC FLL CMP Orlando CMP Midknight Mayhem SCRIW IV (51,569.9 miles, and still on a mission from Bob)

Rule #1: Do not die. Rule #2: Be respectful. Rule #3: Be safe. Rule #4: Follow the handbook.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-09-2004, 09:03 PM
Max Lobovsky's Avatar
Max Lobovsky Max Lobovsky is offline
Fold em oval!
FRC #1257 (Parallel Universe)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Posts: 1,026
Max Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant futureMax Lobovsky has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to Max Lobovsky
Re: Cold Electricity?

With no restriction on the use of muffin fans, I'd just setup a mean duct around a motor. From what I know about CPU cooling, there's a good chance most of the heatsinks you see around on FIRST robots are having a negative effect. If a heatsink doesn't have absolutely great contact, it really does a good job at insulating. Every metal-to-air interface is like a narrow road for heat. Even a good weld doesn't conduct as well as a single piece of metal.
__________________
Learn, edit, inspire: The FIRSTwiki.
Team 1257


2005 NYC Regional - 2nd seed, Xerox Creativity Award, Autodesk Visualization Award
2005 Chesapeake Regional - Engineering Inspiration Award
2004 Chesapeake Regional - Rookie Inspiration award
2004 NJ Regional - Team Spirit Award
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-10-2004, 05:58 PM
Not2B's Avatar
Not2B Not2B is offline
Registered User
AKA: Brian Graham
FRC #0862 (Lightning Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Farmington Hills, Mi
Posts: 401
Not2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Cold Electricity?

That's an area I know about. WOO HOO!

Look up Thermoelectric Device - you'll have better luck.

Peliter effect is the heating and cooling.
It can be reversed, and controlled. It's solid state (just a bunch of P-Type and N-type doped materials linked together) so it's TOTALLY silent. It's a solid state heat pump, which means that heat energy is pumped from one side to the other. The side that has energy removed gets cold, and the energy comes out on the hot side. Of course, because you power the unit, you end up with ALOT more energy on the hot side than you removed on the cold side. Not very efficient. But there is NO refridgerent. NO moving parts. NO fluids.

Also...
Seebeck effect covers the ability of a thermoelectric to produce electricity. If you heat one side, and cool the other, presto-change-o, you are producing a current.

I could write a few pages on how they work, but it'll be quicker for you to look here: Lots of Thermoeletric links

Want to buy a few, cheap? Go to: BG Micro it's a surplus place, but they normally have some cheap.

They have been around for years, and there have been VERY few advances for like 60-70 years. UNTIL the last few years - there have been some really good, big breakthroughs in the last few years.

And I leave you with a list of a FEW uses...
Little mini-desktop pop coolers
Travel coolers
Personal coolers at the Sharper Image (with the HUGE battery pack)
Heated/Cooled seats in vehicles (Amerigon is the company name.)
Lantern powered radios
Data collection on the Alaskan Pipeline (Relativly warm oil on one side, cold Alaska air on the other side = power)
Cooling on ICBM navigation systems (The Soviet scientists were way ahead on alot of this technology)
I have seen a prototype Semi truck with the alternator removed and a 1kW power generator hooked up to the hot air exhaust
And I think some NASA deep space probes used TEDs to produce power. Cold of space and warmth of nuclear material = power.

By the way, I have easy access to these things. So I ran the numbers last year. I can't remember all the numbers, but you'll use more battery power than it's worth. Design your drive correctly in the first place (MANY white papers to help you out) and use fans if necessary. If you HAVE to, the can of cool will also work. But don't do that unless you are REALLY having trouble. It's expensive, it can damage motors, and it only fits the LEGAL definition of non-flamable. (It's R-152, and I can make HUGE fireballs with it.)

Now, I am still playing with the dry ice* thermocapacitor idea....

*Dry ice can be VERY dangerous if you don't know how to handle it. Don't mess with it without help.

OK, my skills are all used up here, going back to lurking...
__________________
Brian Graham
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-11-2004, 12:52 AM
suneel112 suneel112 is offline
Registered User
AKA: the angry designer on 461
#0461 (Westside Boiler Invasion)
Team Role: Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 229
suneel112 has much to be proud ofsuneel112 has much to be proud ofsuneel112 has much to be proud ofsuneel112 has much to be proud ofsuneel112 has much to be proud ofsuneel112 has much to be proud ofsuneel112 has much to be proud ofsuneel112 has much to be proud of
Send a message via AIM to suneel112
Re: Cold Electricity?

This is all complicated stuff, and I heard something to that extent of electron cooling. I though for a split second that it would work well, but then I remembered P=IV, and that a metal will dissipate heat. For the frat boys, a better solution is to have a camoflaged refrigerator to house the keg (ie, a desk with a "computer bench", a false floor, a bed/refrigerator, or just (because they will most probably be up north) in the ground at the frat building. My 2cents
__________________
I'm back like the greatest, from a four year hiatus,
Haters cry later, I'm just getting my paper.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-11-2004, 01:49 AM
Dan Richardson's Avatar
Dan Richardson Dan Richardson is offline
iR3 Creative
AKA: Dan Richardson
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Ft. Lauderdale FL
Posts: 1,090
Dan Richardson has a reputation beyond reputeDan Richardson has a reputation beyond reputeDan Richardson has a reputation beyond reputeDan Richardson has a reputation beyond reputeDan Richardson has a reputation beyond reputeDan Richardson has a reputation beyond reputeDan Richardson has a reputation beyond reputeDan Richardson has a reputation beyond reputeDan Richardson has a reputation beyond reputeDan Richardson has a reputation beyond reputeDan Richardson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Cold Electricity?

Thermo Electric Modules ( Pell Cells ) are pretty neat but are really only very useful in certain applications, and have to be designed specifically for it.

A Thermo Electric Module in ideal conditions ( with correct voltage amperage blah blah blah ) will be roughly 40 degrees centigrade cooler than the hot side. Now of course this is what it should be but there are many x factors that can bring this down. ( Ie fluxuation in voltage and not properly connected ) Which makes it useful, but usually only in certain applications, because you typically need to try to keep the hot side cool . The cooler the hotside, the cooler the cold obviously.

Another thing is that a thermo electric module can only peak about about 140 btu's of cooling,which is somewhat a small amount, if you consider 1lb of ice has 143.3 btus of stored cooling energy in it, And then it takes a .48 btu's to raise it each degree F which I believe is close to about 1btu per degree c.

But for this application acting as a chiller with not too much other involvement if your boys want to use thermo electric modules just to chill it should work well atleast well enough. As long as they design the packaging correctly and make sure that none of the dispensed heat re-enters the cooling package and dispensed into the atmospher then your ambient temperature could actually do the cooling. I mean your not asking for the thermo electric modules to cool the liquid .. just to keep it cold. Again it could perform fine if designed correctly. Plus, for as long as it would keep it cold, it prob. would be killed off before the effects of the chiller began to digress :-P.

Main problem with most heat sink designs is lack of common sense and double checking things. People fly by with the calculations then design things that completely screw up everything they already figured out. Of course it happens in all kinds of engineering.. but you see it soo much commercial style heatsink product.

As for FIRST applications of thermo electric modules, i doubt you'll see them incorporated. One they drain more battery life, 2 they are hard to adapt to the units you'll need them on. The work put into them and the benefit produced is likely to be in great disfavor. I tends to work better if you are worried about cooling a motor by more effecient power management and maybe bonded fins with a muffin fan. We had custom designed heatsinks by the heatsink company I work for now ( as a psuedo intern/lab rat ) and the amount of work put into them/ over benefit recieved was very disfavorable. So its all where you find your nitch as far as FIRST goes.

Dan
__________________
CO-Founder of Robot in 3 Days and the Robot in 3 Day Challenge.

Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cold heat? Billfred Chit-Chat 27 03-15-2006 06:01 PM
Static Electricity JeffO Championship Event 5 04-19-2004 10:04 AM
Static Electricity archiver 2001 12 06-23-2002 11:34 PM
Cold in a Can archiver 2000 8 06-23-2002 09:17 PM
no electricity Libby Ritchie Chit-Chat 41 07-29-2001 11:45 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:20 AM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi