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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-25-2005, 03:06 PM
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Emily Pease Emily Pease is offline
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdr1122334455
Here are a couple of tips that can always help when posting,
-Do you really want to post what you just typed? its OK to delete it or edit it!
-don't take things too seriously, there is a tendency around here to for people to take a couple of remarks too seriously
-Search before creating a new topic, also make sure you search all forums, you may have missed a topic devoted to what you are looking for
-There never is a "best" its always opinion
-Spell Check!
-Try not to go political or religious in these forums, there are other sites for stuff like that
-Respect any Admin/Moderator decision
-keep a sense of humor, watch posting and you
Good list! I would also like to add:

- You don't have to have perfect syntax and grammar, but if you want other posters to take you seriously, it helps to be able to form a coherent sentence. And let's face it, it's not really that hard, is it?
- Use your English skills to find the nicest way to say whatever you want to say. If there isn't a nice way to say something, you probably don't need to say it, at least not on a public forum. For example, disagreeing is fine, but instead of saying, "You're wrong!" you could just as easily say, "I disagree with you because..."
- Easy on the smileys! Please?
- If you're in so much of a rush that you can't type out entire words ("you" instead of "u", etc), you probably don't have time to be browsing an online forum.
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Unread 05-25-2005, 03:19 PM
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

I'd agree

I don't post much (if you can't tell), but i read alot. Sometimes i want to post and return the fact that they're being a little short tempered there, and it kinda stops me. I'm not going to waste all my time doing that stuff.
It's not nice. End of story
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Unread 05-25-2005, 03:36 PM
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

wow! I made the mistake of venturing into a thread a couple days ago on a political subject, and I got absolutely HAMMERED with assualts on my intelligence, comments on my grammer and punctuation (or lack there of)

I was accused of spreading half-truths and lies (with no rebuttal to the actual statements themselves, whatever they were)

and I was repeatedly hit with thinly vailed insults

To put it bluntly, Im appalled to see people on this forum think that insulting someone, name calling, labeling, or criticizing someone elses language, spelling, punctuation... is either appropriate, acceptable, or that this somehow makes your point for you

or that flinging a mulititude of insults and induendos is even better

If you know what someone is saying then they have communicated their message, there is no need for every post to have perfect spelling or grammer

logic and reasoning skills should be required in public schools. If you are in a passionate debate, insulting the other person and criticizing their language skills contributes nothing to your position.
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Unread 05-25-2005, 04:07 PM
Dave Flowerday Dave Flowerday is offline
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winged Globe
One of the great things I like about FIRST competitions is that I can go up to a really veteran team, ask a question (that may turn out to be very obvious and seemingly quite stupid), and get a courteous, helpful answer without getting a "stupid newbie" or "you should know better" feeling. I might be alone in this, but seeing everyone spout out "search before you post" doesn't quite give the same effect.
I agree 100%. All too often people just reply with "Search before you post" with a link and it always sounds very harsh to me. Honestly, I find the "Search before you post" people to be way more annoying (and rude) than the newbies asking simple questions.

To those who love to slam people with "Search before you post": maybe you should think twice before you reply too. If someone came up to you at a competition and asked you how many points a tetra on a goal was worth, would you snap back at them, "Read the manual!" I hope not.
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Unread 05-25-2005, 04:21 PM
Conor Ryan Conor Ryan is offline
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday
I agree 100%. All too often people just reply with "Search before you post" with a link and it always sounds very harsh to me. Honestly, I find the "Search before you post" people to be way more annoying (and rude) than the newbies asking simple questions.

To those who love to slam people with "Search before you post": maybe you should think twice before you reply too. If someone came up to you at a competition and asked you how many points a tetra on a goal was worth, would you snap back at them, "Read the manual!" I hope not.
Yeap, you two are 110% right. just saying, go Search it is rude at times. Its more constructive to teach them something as well as give them an answer.

Quote:
How many points are tetra's worth again? I seem to have forgotten...
Appropriate Answer: They are worth 3 points on top and 1 point if they are underneath the goals. If you have any more questions you may want to consult here if you have any more questions.

you guys get the idea, you should think of Chief Delphi as an extention of the pit area, everyone is really friendly, love robots, and you can always get your questions answered. not as a forum where people slam each other just for the heck of it.
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Unread 05-25-2005, 04:41 PM
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday
I agree 100%. All too often people just reply with "Search before you post" with a link and it always sounds very harsh to me. Honestly, I find the "Search before you post" people to be way more annoying (and rude) than the newbies asking simple questions.

To those who love to slam people with "Search before you post": maybe you should think twice before you reply too. If someone came up to you at a competition and asked you how many points a tetra on a goal was worth, would you snap back at them, "Read the manual!" I hope not.
The reason why that is done is so the page doesn't get flooded with duplicate threads. It is not meant to be rude it is meant to keep the page neat and orderly.
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Unread 05-25-2005, 05:09 PM
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko Ed
The reason why that is done is so the page doesn't get flooded with duplicate threads. It is not meant to be rude it is meant to keep the page neat and orderly.
Simply saying "search before you post" can be interpreted as rude. All it takes is some grace, shown by the eloquent Genia. Look at that. She was helpful, concise, and said "search before you post" in a tactful way. Let's learn from her.

Andy B.
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Unread 05-25-2005, 05:16 PM
Dave Flowerday Dave Flowerday is offline
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko Ed
It is not meant to be rude it is meant to keep the page neat and orderly.
Yes, I understand why it is done, however, to the uninitiated, it looks like a very short, very unfriendly response.

How is a response that says "Search before you post" any more neat and orderly than one that says "I searched the forums and found that the answer to your question is {blah}. Here's some threads that came up that have already discussed this topic: {blah} {blah}."? To me, the latter just sounds a lot more friendly.

I guess I don't like it when people get publicly scolded for making a newbie mistake. Searching first is an etiquette thing that we take for granted but the fact that so many people make this mistake is an indication that it apparently is not common knowledge for new members and therefore we need to be nice about it.

The fact that it's in the rules when they sign up for this site should prevent it, but face it: a lot of people just don't read that stuff. Do you know how many teams I've inspected at competitions that failed to put the team number on their robot? It's one of the most common things that I have to tell teams to fix. And, it's in the rule book and it's the very first item on the inspection checklist and it's an easy one. As much as it irritates me each time I see it, I don't yell at the team and make some sarcastic comment about reading the rules. This is a very similar situation, and it's more important because it's very easy for people to misinterpret emotions and intentions when they're only reading text (especially if they're relative newbies to online communities such as this).
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Unread 05-25-2005, 05:28 PM
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

2 Thoughts:

- Efficiency, neatness, and orderliness are useful tools, but they aren't the end-all-be-all of a team or a forum.

- My rookie team went to Atlanta this year, and they were disturbed by the lack of GP shown by other teams, in contrast to the Las Vegas Regional (the only other competition we'd been to). The friendliness and camaraderie at the Regional was missing in the pit and on the field. There were even teams who covered up their robots in the pit when asked a question! It made the team question whether they just wanted to stick with Regionals next year!
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Unread 05-25-2005, 05:41 PM
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooknl
My rookie team went to Atlanta this year, and they were disturbed by the lack of GP shown by other teams, in contrast to the Las Vegas Regional (the only other competition we'd been to). The friendliness and camaraderie at the Regional was missing in the pit and on the field. There were even teams who covered up their robots in the pit when asked a question! It made the team question whether they just wanted to stick with Regionals next year!
Why is it that I didn't hear stories like this when I joined FIRST three years ago?

It could just be me, but it seems like the emphasis on GP has decreased. Significantly, and not just on this website.

I'm not quite sure if this is on-topic in the thread, though, since this seems to be dedicated to the website more than FIRST in general. That said, I've got a few ideas brewing that I could post here (or elsewhere) later on...
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Unread 05-25-2005, 11:40 PM
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Baker
Simply saying "search before you post" can be interpreted as rude. All it takes is some grace, shown by the eloquent Genia. Look at that. She was helpful, concise, and said "search before you post" in a tactful way. Let's learn from her.

Andy B.
Genia rocks my socks! she is a very nice person and she always uses smileys and replies to PM's! I think we should all use her as a role model...

yeah about the lack of GP thing, I am a rookie and I found most people to be REALLY nice at competitions, both Pacific Northwest Regional and Championships, but I have noticed that sometimes on the forums people are a little less than nice. so let's all be like Genia and use smileys and be good FIRSTies
-anjali

Last edited by sure_smile : 05-25-2005 at 11:43 PM.
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Unread 05-26-2005, 12:12 PM
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by petek
Last weekend I met Sabrina Varanelli, founder of team 1302, and I asked her what was the hardest part of starting her team up and she replied "getting the team to understand gracious professionalism". It really is a foreign concept to most people, especially those new to FIRST. We live in such a competitive society, where it often seems that the majority are just in it for themselves, that the idea that you would help strangers - your competitors no less - seems almost blasphemous. Witness the popularity of TV shows like Survivor and The Apprentice.
I have to say that Sabrina did a very good job in teaching her team what Gracious Professionalism is. She is one of the few examples of great student leaders in FIRST.

I feel the level of gracious professionalism has gone down(just a little bit) in the past year or so, but it can be re-enforced. Yet, FIRST is one of the few sports in which Gracious Professionalism prevails at such a good level. These are principles we students need to learn while we are young.

I think the "Search before you post" response was formulated because everyone was frustrated by the re-occurring threads.

Anyways, you brought up a nice point Matt, good job.
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Unread 05-26-2005, 12:28 PM
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

Gracious Professionalism is supposed to be the backbone in FIRST competitions. When I talk about the program I explain how even though it's COMPETITIVE we still work TOGETHER. One of my fondest memories was 2003's NJ Regional. 1156 (from Brazil) was a rookie team as was 1089. Unfortunately, the team had to ship their robot in pieces and reconstruct it the Thursday of the regional. I remember 1089 and team 25 coming together with tools and help to put their robot back together.

After 56 won Philadelphia, 1089 had a large discussion about raising money for them to go to Nationals. Nationals, for me, was one of the best experiences I've had in FIRST and it's one of the main reasons I keep coming back. Everyone in FIRST deserves the opportunity to experience what I have. They too have worked hard on they're robot and are worthy opponents- they beat us !

Our team is about helping, inspiring, and overall just being friendly. What better way to show how we feel about FIRST than to do anything we can to support it?

Something Mr. Gregory said that I find inspiring is the following:

" [FIRST] is ultra-competitive, but the point is that you're not trying to out-do your competition off the playing field. You want every team to have the best chance that they possibly could have. It could mean different things at different times. We've had numerous cases where we'd help a team fix their robot only to face them in the next round. Why? We want a good round, and we'd hate to see someone have to forefeit because of a broken bot. Someone needs a sprocket? we're there... a spare motor? sure thing... and in return, we hope that other teams would do the same thing (and they often do)."
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Unread 05-26-2005, 01:17 PM
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

Does anyone have a good "one-pager" on how we (within FIRST) define "gracious professionalism"? I want a short description to give to incoming students in order to "set the stage" as newbies on the team.

Also, I've seen 99.9% living examples of gracious professionalism here on the CD forum as well as in the various FIRST events. Sure, in written form on this forum (and any other e-mail written correspondence) it is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT to follow these rules than it is for an in-person dialog:

1) Read the person's words twice; first for content and again for "tone" of writing style
2) The internet forums and e-mail is NOT a place to practice "text messaging" shorthand. You've got a full-screen view, so use it and use the language properly.
3) Sure, do a "search" first. They call it "putting your brain in gear before engaging your mouth". Then when you do post a query, it's fine to state "I tried to do a search, but....."
4) And....when you do reply....pretend that you're the recipient not the author. Many times I stash an outgoing e-mail for 24 hours before sending just to see if my "tone" and "mood" might have changed. Also, spell-check will get you lots of "points" with the person reading your thread.

I'm so thrilled and proud to be a rookie part of FIRST. Even at my age, many of the students have taught me so much about the true meaning of "gracious professionalism". Keep it up.
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Unread 05-26-2005, 01:20 PM
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Re: Gracious Professionalism > Ungracious Unprofessionalism

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhitchco
Does anyone have a good "one-pager" on how we (within FIRST) define "gracious professionalism"? I want a short description to give to incoming students in order to "set the stage" as newbies on the team.
The poster in this white paper may do the trick: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pa...le&paperid=117

It's two years old, but GP is GP.
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