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Unread 02-12-2006, 01:21 PM
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Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

Yesterday when making a post about rookie teams I got walked all over


What Does everyone think? After getting trampled and receiving -120 rep points i could use a little help
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Unread 02-12-2006, 01:23 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

Some people just dont know how to take critisism, this board is a great recourse for FIRST teams but [insert your diety here] dangit, you people need to toughen up!
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Unread 02-12-2006, 01:26 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

After reading your posts, I suspect that a large number of the members of this forum decided that someone wondering if everyone hates rookie FIRST teams probably didn't have the kind of positive attitude towards helping out other teams that is typically prized on this forum and in the FIRST competition. Thus the negative reps.
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Unread 02-12-2006, 01:33 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

It takes a lot for me to give negative rep to someone. But there's a few on here who seem to have no problem giving it out like candy.
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Unread 02-12-2006, 01:37 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

This program is not for everyone. Thus we expect those who are participating to be of a higher grade, and we hold them to a higher standard as such. Rudeness, name-calling etc are symbols of immaturity and childishness. That is not the type of people who belong here. As I've told my students, I am not your babysitter. If you are adult enough to be a participant in this program, then you are adult enough to act like an adult. It's fine to have fun, it's awesome, just look at the "Being silly" section of our website. But there is a line between having fun and acting like a child. We expect the people that post on these forums to not only act like an adult to represent themselves well, but also to represent their teams well (see thread "What Happened to Class"). Bottom line, the people who are active on here are professionals. They are mentors. They are not babysitters and expect the students on here to be able to act old enough that we wouldn't have to put them in time-out.
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Unread 02-12-2006, 01:38 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

I feared that this day would be a long time coming. I hope that everyone who reads this thread or posts maintains an open mind about it, because something like this has the propensity to cause a ton of controversy. But at the same time, I believe that this thread should be left open because of the concerns that it raises.

For more than three full seasons I have witnessed the growth of ChiefDelphi, in users and in posts. I have also witnessed the arrival of many different personalities (not a surprise given the increased number of users) and as such, some of these personalities have been a direct contrast to what is usually seen in FIRST Veteran Circles, or what ChiefDelphi might have been (I am not that old school ). However, time and again I have witnessed the same arguments from the same group of veterans. There is one group who take themselves far too seriously and expect everyone to act in accordance with the conventions that they established, informally or not. There is another group of these same individuals that espouse the need for acceptance and freedom of expression while stipulating that new posters should take the time to read the forum rules, outline their thoughts and ideas and avoid provoking individuals. Because of concerns raised in past seasons, I am glad to say that I have witnessed a distinct shift toward the latter group. However, some individuals continue to maintain a collectively held belief that ChiefDelphi is a bastion of expression that can only be sorted in one form, their form.

Granted Pyro's original post was lacking in a well-formed argument, or even a relevant topic, but I see absolutely no reason in giving him 120 negative reputation points. No where does he actively insult a FIRST team, but he divulges his personal beliefs on the state of freshmen in a high school, something the same group of posters on ChiefDelphi have no doubt said before, only in a different context or tone. Why should he immediately be slammed for something like that? What I would have liked to have seen is someone posting about why that kind of reasoning or argument should have been left to somewhere else, or the fact that he should have presented some form of evidence or relevance about the freshmen treatment. I firmly believe that either negative reputation or reputation itself should just be scrapped in general. For someone who consistently abuses the forums, negative reputation isn't going to stop them. For someone who just doesn't understand, a PM or a posting in reply that is well-formed, patient and respecting of their opinion would be far more effective, despite the fact that you can now attach comments to reputation.

I realize that ChiefDelphi isn't a free board, there are rules that everyone should follow, but for something as trivial as Pyro asked, there was absolutely no reason to slam him with that many negative points. Obviously you cant track how many he received, but I would like to believe that individuals would think to post or private message him first about his topic rather than trying to discourage him in such a manner.

Everyone has a different maturity level in their lifetimes and they still need to be respected and to have their opinions heard.

There are a lot of great people who have yet to post on ChiefDelphi and a lot of great people who have stopped posting due to the amount of politics and incidents like this. Let's not scare them off anymore. Please.

Veterans, be smart in how you treat newcomers. Point them to rules, guidelines and above all be patient with them. FIRST and ChiefDelphi aren't exclusive clubs, indeed, they are meant for everyone to experience.
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Last edited by J Flex 188 : 02-12-2006 at 01:40 PM. Reason: spelling
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Unread 02-12-2006, 01:44 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddrag
It takes a lot for me to give negative rep to someone. But there's a few on here who seem to have no problem giving it out like candy.
Ditto I don't think Ive given out one yet. One thing to keep in mind is that emotion and tone don't carry over well over the Internet. Though content of posts might play into it a bit. Something I had to learn, keep in mind that you are writing to all types of people mentors, sponsors, students, teachers, veteran team members, new team members, rookie teams, etc... It helps to review posts to see if theirs something in their that CD on a whole might not approve of. You can't please everybody and their are cases where people generally do overreact to posts but I don't think that thread fits in either category. Just think posts over.

Also J Flex 188 has it on the dot. I find if someone has a problem with something someone posts and it's a big enough deal that they feel the urge to negative rep that person it might be more beneficial and productive to message them first. Sometimes people really don't know that what they are saying may be offensive. Most people are reasonable enough to change their post or keep what you said in mind in the future as long as you aren't hostile in your mail. Also it may be good for readers to look at a post and think "Is it the post or is it just me". Sometimes we over react to things and thats where a PM can clear a bunch of confusion.
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Last edited by mechanicalbrain : 02-12-2006 at 01:56 PM.
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Unread 02-12-2006, 01:47 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyro20911d
Yesterday when making a post about rookie teams I got walked all over
What Does everyone think? After getting trampled and receiving -120 rep points i could use a little help
I think if you read the threads I PM'ed you then you would probably understand why some have given you negative rep. Just in case you didn't get them the first time, here they are:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/announcement.php?f=16

If you start here, then you're off to a good start to understanding what is expected on these forums when you post.
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Unread 02-12-2006, 01:53 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

to get hit with that many - rep points in one day Pyro must have hit a raw nerve with a lot of people!

very often new (freshman) teams do have problems. Sometimes we do get rookie teams who think FIRST is battlebots, or who are way skewed on the mentor designed/student designed balance of things.

We have awards for rookie-of-the-year at regionals because it IS very challenging for a rookie team to excell side by side with vetran teams.

That being said, if you post something on CD and the red dots start flowing your way, you do have the option to go back and edit what you said, or to acknowledge that you appear to have offended a lot of people.

The irony of all this is Pryo has 14 posts, so he is a rookie on this forum. People are jumping on his case for making generalizations about rookie teams and at the same time wacking his rep for acting like, well... like a CD rookie :^)

CD rookie: someone new to the forum who does not yet understand the norms and workings of this place.

Last edited by KenWittlief : 02-12-2006 at 01:56 PM.
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Unread 02-12-2006, 02:05 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

If you say anything other than what everyone expects you to say, then you will be reacted to. If you calculate well, and determine what words would be most effective, then you'll float upstream.

If you must say what's on your mind, then you may have to learn to do it well. That is, you have to convince everyone that what you think is actually the way to go. You do this by presenting your ideas exactly how everyone expects to hear them (psst, they don't have to be valid, they just need to be said properly).

Its really simple, but it makes my stomach churn, because I have special word for the action..
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Unread 02-12-2006, 02:10 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

I read your thread this afternoon and it seemed as though you were asking a rhetorical question designed to generate a lot of response. If I were wondering what other teams thought of rookie teams, I'm not sure I would have phrased it quite that way and it could have generated a lively (healthy) debate on the subject (although I think I know what most people would say).

We all make posts we wish we could take back. We all have typos, misspellings and poor grammar occasionally. We all feel strongly about certain aspects of this program, and that is what makes it so special. We all have mis-interpreted a post because we are not having a face-to-face discussion and cannot detect body language or speech inflections or have forgotten to put a smilie face next to something meant to be a joke. Are we thin-skinned? I don't think so.
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Unread 02-12-2006, 02:11 PM
IraJason IraJason is offline
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

Well... after reading your thread, you did come off as a bit negative towards rookie teams.

As being a member of a rookie team and participating in an off-season event, I would have to say that many veteran teams and members are willing to help out rookie teams and accept them into the FIRST community. I personally have never been looked down upon by members of other teams or on these boards for being a rookie. In fact, our team has been praised by some for getting as far as we have this season. Everyone here is just trying to help each other out, and it is usually frowned upon when somebody says something offensive or rude about other members of the FIRST community, especially when they are new and are trying to be accepted into the community as a whole.

Now would I penalize you for your comments? Personally, no I wouldn't. I would formulate my own argument on why I do not agree with you, and see where it goes from there. Yes, some people are quick to judge, and would rather punish you for what you have already said rather then hearing what you reply to them, but that is why you should be as professional and as courteous as possible when posting. Come up with a full fledged argument that anyone can understand, then let people respond to it. We are all grown ups here, and we should be able to carry out civilized conversations that prove that.

With that put out there, I must add one last thing. In any place, whether it be on these forums or out in daily life, everyone should be as courteous and professional as possible to one another. You never know who may be out there that may take offense to what you say and penalize you greatly for it. Like Dean Kamen said, "Life isn't fair." Sometimes you just got to suck it up and take the consequences for your actions.

Last edited by IraJason : 02-12-2006 at 10:31 PM.
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Unread 02-12-2006, 02:25 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

Negative Rep may or may not be a good way to give feedback, but it's not a matter of being thin-skinned at all. Rude and insensitive comments about freshman, rookies, or any other group aren't tolerated, period.

In the popular culture of the US it has become way too easy and way too common for individuals to poke fun at or even taunt others. It's one thing to joke with an individual you know, but it's quite another to poke fun at groups of people, especially since our founder tells us every year to HELP start new rookie teams so more people can be a part of FIRST and feel welcome. I chose not to confront/post/PM/negative rep the thread the first time I read it, but I am a mentor of a rookie team. I left a very successful veteran team to start a new one. I believe that's what our founder and leaders wanted me to do and it was a change that I was ready for. I was and I still am offended that someone, even in jest, would suggest here that rookies and/or freshman have less value than others just because they are "new" or have different needs.

While the thread in question ( http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...?postid=450960 ) may have been an innocent mistake and a rain of negative rep may not have been the best way to get through to this one individual, everyone who posts on Chiefdelphi as a member of a FIRST team needs to understand something simple, yet difficult...

FIRST is about changing the popular culture. It's about coopertition, gracious professionalism, learning skills that will help us solve society's hardest problems, celebrating an inclusive way of advancing the culture. If you are here and are part of a FIRST team, then the assumption is that you understand this. Don't believe me? Ask Dean Kamen, Dr. Woodie Flowers, Dave Lavery (do you know the dollar figure NASA puts toward rookies every year on purpose?), the board of directors, FIRST HQ Staff, regional directors, senior mentors, ...

Different folks react differently to posts/threads that are in direct contrast to the mission and goals of FIRST. Some will PM. Some will post. Some will negative rep. Some will report posts to moderators. However, you can be assured that such behaviors will not be ignored, they will be confronted. While in many other places in our culture poor behavior will be let go, in FIRST it will be dealt with in one way or another.

Pyro, it's my sincere hope that you see this as a learning experience and move forward. While you might not like the way others handled their responses, you sure can admit that your thread did cast a negative light on both rookies and freshman. As far as I'm concerned, you have now had a chance to learn and understand the big picture. Let's move forward, more positively.

Namaste.
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Last edited by Rich Kressly : 02-12-2006 at 05:58 PM.
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Unread 02-12-2006, 02:25 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

everyone picks up on the 'professional' part of GP, but very often we gloss over the 'gracious' part

being gracious is when your long lost cousin shows up for your wedding, wearing blue jeans and a Tee shirt

and instead of ripping his spleen out through his nostrils, you tell him how great he looks, how happy your are to see him,

and hey I just happen to have a new dress shirt and tie that would look great on you (almost as if you were prepared for something predictable?)

Last edited by KenWittlief : 02-12-2006 at 02:28 PM.
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Unread 02-12-2006, 02:27 PM
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Re: Are Chief Delphi users thin-skinned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel J.
Its really simple, but it makes my stomach churn, because I have special word for the action..
Manipulation?
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