OCCRA
Go to Post I know what "finished" means, and I know what "robot" means, but what is this "finished robot" of which you speak? - Rick TYler [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Events   CD-Media   CD-Spy   FRC-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-31-2007, 07:35 PM
jgannon's Avatar
jgannon jgannon is offline
I ᐸ3 Robots
AKA: Joey Gannon
no team
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,475
jgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond reputejgannon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #5 Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post
This will give him experience as to what the GDC goes through every year and (hopefully) give a more grammatically correct manual.
Eric, I like your ideas about using caution when criticizing. Nonetheless, I'm not sure why everybody is seemingly dismissing this as a mere semantics issue. Go take a look at <R48>. I know that Eric is plenty familiar with it by now, because he is one of the outspoken rules gurus around here. Follow the flowchart with the 2006 KOP Parker cylinder in mind, as Tristan does. It passes without any question or lawyering or grammatical quirks. It is obvious that this is not what is intended, because of the latest updates and Q&As, but <R48> still stands as written. This is a problem! I don't think it's worthwhile to criticize the GDC over ticky-tack semantics, but it's also a mistake to blindly defend them when there's an obvious conflict. Am I missing something here? I feel like I'm going nuts, because it's so apparent to me, but there's only one other person who will even acknowledge what I'm seeing.
__________________
Team 1743 - The Short Circuits
2010 Pittsburgh Excellence in Design & Team Spirit Awards
2009 Pittsburgh Regional Champions (thanks to 222 and 1218)
2007 Pittsburgh Website Award
2006 Pittsburgh Regional Champions (thanks to 395 and 1038)
2006 Pittsburgh Rookie Inspiration & Highest Rookie Seed

Team 1388 - Eagle Robotics
2005 Sacramento Engineering Inspiration
2004 Curie Division Champions (thanks to 1038 and 175)
2004 Sacramento Rookie All-Star

_
  #32   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-31-2007, 07:51 PM
DanDon's Avatar
DanDon DanDon is offline
ohhh MY god
AKA: Dan Hoizner
FRC #0375 (The Robotic Plague)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 1,432
DanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond reputeDanDon has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via ICQ to DanDon Send a message via AIM to DanDon Send a message via MSN to DanDon
Re: Team Update #5 Posted

I have to say that I'm with Tristan and Joey on this one. The way <R48> reads, since the Parker cylinder is a previous year's cylinder, is off-the-shelf, and does not exceed the quantity and/or cost limits for this year's competition, the cylinder passes the flowchart and is a legal part.
__________________
  #33   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-31-2007, 07:57 PM
Cody Carey's Avatar
Cody Carey Cody Carey is offline
,':-)
AKA: C. Carey
FRC #0306 (CRT)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Corry, PA
Posts: 1,137
Cody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cody Carey Send a message via Yahoo to Cody Carey
Re: Team Update #5 Posted

Ok... Everyone who's dismissing this problem as a clash between egos needs to read the first few posts, because the question (as jgannon has stated) is entirely valid. One part of the manual says that the parker cylinders are legal, and another says that they aren't. This is a problem.

When I'm deciding what to put on the robot, I go to the flowchart. In this application, If I went to the flowchart... My team's robot wouldn't pass inspection. (That is bad).

You can walk in someone else's shoes all you want, but that doesn't make a mistake that they previously made correct. There job is hard, and I am very grateful that they do it (Thank you GDC ), but I still expect a clear, concise manual. as does everyone else in FIRST.

So... Has anyone posted this to Q&A yet?


EDIT: I also haven't seen one person criticize the GDC, I've only seen a problem with a manual being pointed out. Nobody should be taking anything said here personally, as that only aggravates the situation and causes hard feelings.
__________________

Last edited by Cody Carey : 01-31-2007 at 08:01 PM.
  #34   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-31-2007, 09:41 PM
Steve W's Avatar
Steve W Steve W is offline
Grow Up? Why?
FRC #0610
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Toronto,Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,522
Steve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #5 Posted

Tristan's question has been posted on the Q&A exactly as I received it tonight.
__________________
We do not stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing.
  #35   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-01-2007, 09:33 PM
Steve W's Avatar
Steve W Steve W is offline
Grow Up? Why?
FRC #0610
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Toronto,Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,522
Steve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond reputeSteve W has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #5 Posted

The answer has been posted http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=3276
__________________
We do not stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing.
  #36   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-01-2007, 09:41 PM
Cody Carey's Avatar
Cody Carey Cody Carey is offline
,':-)
AKA: C. Carey
FRC #0306 (CRT)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Corry, PA
Posts: 1,137
Cody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond reputeCody Carey has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cody Carey Send a message via Yahoo to Cody Carey
Re: Team Update #5 Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDC View Post
Unmodified Parker-Hannifan and/or Bimba cylinders that are sourced from prior-year FRC Kit Of Parts, and which are one of the sizes listed on the 2007 Pneumatic Components Order Form, and which are identical in size, shape and function to any of the specific part number combinations listed on the 2007 Pneumatic Components Order Form, and which are rated for at least 125 psi, may be used on a 2007 FRC robot. The relevant rules (<R28>, <R48>, <R105> and <R106>) are satisfied. If the cylinder has been modified, it can not be used. If the cylinder is from other than Parker-Hannifan or Bimba, it can not be used. If the cylinder is of a diameter/stroke combination that is not listed on the 2007 Pneumatic Components Order Form, it can not be used. If the cylinder is not the same as one of the Bimba part numbers listed on the 2007 Pneumatic Components Order Form (e.g. it has a different mounting configuration, different piston rod configuration, different sensor integration, etc.), it can not be used. If the cylinder is rated for less than 125 psi, it can not be used.

So you can use one of the old Parker-Hannifan cylinders, as long as it is identical in function to one of the cylinders listed on the current Bimba order form.
OK.

Thank you GDC.
__________________
  #37   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2007, 12:26 AM
Rickertsen2 Rickertsen2 is offline
Umm Errr...
None #1139 (Chamblee Gear Grinders)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: ATL
Posts: 1,422
Rickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant futureRickertsen2 has a brilliant future
Send a message via AIM to Rickertsen2 Send a message via Yahoo to Rickertsen2
Re: Team Update #5 Posted

I miss the old manuals. They were better written and overall more consistent.
__________________
1139 Alumni
  #38   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2007, 12:49 AM
dlavery's Avatar
dlavery dlavery is offline
Curmudgeon
FRC #0116 (Epsilon Delta)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Herndon, VA
Posts: 3,168
dlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond reputedlavery has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #5 Posted

OK, so now it is completely unambiguous. The rules make it clear that Parker cylinders from prior KOPs are permitted (as long as they are of legal sizes, etc.) and FIRST has made it clear that their intent was for Parker cylinders to be legal. The manual and the intent are consistent. Q.E.D. So can we just get over this inane lawyering of the rules and get back to building robots?


.
__________________
"I know what you're thinking, punk," hissed Wordy Harry to his new editor, "you're thinking, 'Did he use six superfluous adjectives or only five?' - and to tell the truth, I forgot myself in all this excitement; but being as this is English, the most powerful language in the world, whose subtle nuances will blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' - well do you, punk?"
- Stuart Vasepuru, 2006 Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest



My OTHER CAR is still on Mars!!!
  #39   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2007, 08:11 AM
Mr. Van Mr. Van is offline
Registered User
#0599 (Robo-Dox)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Granada Hills, CA
Posts: 328
Mr. Van has a reputation beyond reputeMr. Van has a reputation beyond reputeMr. Van has a reputation beyond reputeMr. Van has a reputation beyond reputeMr. Van has a reputation beyond reputeMr. Van has a reputation beyond reputeMr. Van has a reputation beyond reputeMr. Van has a reputation beyond reputeMr. Van has a reputation beyond reputeMr. Van has a reputation beyond reputeMr. Van has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #5 Posted

Uh, so anyone need 2" bore 12" throw pistons? How about 1.5" bore 8" throw?
Now we've got PLENTY of extras!

-Mr. Van
Coach, 599
RoboDox
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Team Update #3 Posted Katie Reynolds Rules/Strategy 26 01-21-2007 06:41 PM
Team Update #2 is Posted geo General Forum 1 01-16-2004 09:56 AM
Team Update 8 Posted! Harrison General Forum 1 01-30-2003 07:08 AM
Team update #6 posted Joe Ross General Forum 6 01-22-2003 09:14 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:38 PM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi