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  #31   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-22-2010, 09:17 PM
babycakes babycakes is offline
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

Its completely the opposite of what FIRST is about.
  #32   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-22-2010, 09:23 PM
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

Quote:
Originally Posted by babycakes View Post
This team is way overated. It easy to make a good robot when ALL your parts are machined in Texas and shipped back and pop riveted together. The students learn alot about problem solving there. And they expect all the awards they get and arent even excited about winning a district. The driver on the team when asked if he was excited at the cass tech district said " not really, i know we are going to win it". This team really deserves everything they get huh?
I love how whenever everyone decides to slag a team in this fashion, they choose to do it with an anonymous account. Why not put your name behind your voice?
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:: Karthik Kanagasabapathy ::
"Enthusiasm is one of the most powerful engines of success. When you do a thing, do it with all your might. Put your whole soul into it. Stamp it with your own personality. Be active, be energetic, be enthusiastic and faithful and you will accomplish your object. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm" -- R.W. Emerson
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Unread 03-22-2010, 09:25 PM
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HashemReza HashemReza is offline
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

You forget, Babycakes, that in order for a team to even have that level of sponsorship, they must first attain it, which is always a difficult task. Furthermore, being able to effectively use this sponsorship is a completely different load to bear. In order for their robot to be machined, they need to CAD every...single...part...of the robot. How much do you learn from pop-riveting tread to a wheel? Nothing, is the correct answer. How much do you learn from CADing an entire working robot? A slight bit more, to say the least.

Next time, I recommend you make an attempt to gear your mindset towards competing with this team, not complaining about what they've earned.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karthik View Post
I love how whenever everyone decides to slag a team in this fashion, they choose to do it with an anonymous account. Why not put your name behind your voice?
Duly noted, and agreed.

Last edited by HashemReza : 03-22-2010 at 09:29 PM.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 09:29 PM
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

Quote:
Originally Posted by babycakes View Post
Its completely the opposite of what FIRST is about.
I will challenge you to find anything in the rules or the speeches of Dean or Woodie that suggest that FIRST is about learning to use a drill or a mill or a press or a break.

FIRST is about inspiring students, and if we can tech them some things along the way that's a fantastic bonus.

Team 217 has developed a build season process that allows them to maximize the time they spend on prototyping, design, and iteration by minimizing fabrication time. They do this by using construction techniques that best align with the capabilities of their sponsors. I hardly see how any of this goes against what FIRST is about. Their team has optimized their process to spend the maximum amount of time working on solving the problems presented by the game.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're jealous. I know I am. Team 217 (and the rest of Team IFI, who use similar methods) are teams that I strive to emulate. What makes them even better is they aren't trying to stop you from emulating them, in fact they are actively encouraging it by doing their best to share their design process with the rest of the FRC community.

I always say the same thing to people that say that students don't do design work on team so-and-so, go talk to them. Walk into the team's pit and ask the students about the machine, you may be surprised by how much they're able to tell you.
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  #35   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-22-2010, 09:30 PM
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Rich Kressly Rich Kressly is offline
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

Quote:
Originally Posted by babycakes View Post
Its completely the opposite of what FIRST is about.
Wrong.
Dead wrong.
Find me ANY piece of literature or soundbite from FIRST's founder, FIRST's national advisors (Lavery, Flowers, Wilczynski, etc), FIRST's Board of Directors, anywhere on the FIRST website or in FIRST produced marketing materials, etc. that supports your claim.

And you're dead wrong on the machined in TX and riveting things together part, too. There's MORE problem solving going on here among students than you'll EVER know. Do you have ANY clue how hard these students on these teams work at prototyping, building, testing, then CADDING into the wee hours of the morning to actually engineer an elegant final product?

Your version of what FIRST is about is exactly that, your version. If your team decides to build robots differently, then so be it, but why should that mean another team is "wrong"?

And how on earth could you call a team "overrated" that performs the way it does every year? Astounding...

(insert long-breathless rant about the meaning of FIRST here).

Go spend a year with a team, then spout off about them like you know what you're saying. Until then, you'll have to consider that your conjecture might be harmful and potentially slanderous.

namaste.
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Last edited by Rich Kressly : 03-22-2010 at 09:32 PM.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 09:35 PM
Akash Rastogi Akash Rastogi is offline
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

Quote:
Originally Posted by babycakes View Post
This team really deserves everything they get huh?
Pretty much, yeah. They do.

You earn what you work for.

You sound like you haven't worked for much.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 09:41 PM
fuzzy1718 fuzzy1718 is offline
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

because they know how mob mentality is. I'm not taking either side of this debate, it is napalm to one and all, but the anonymous account thing I will comment on. Anyone who says anything in the FIRST community that isn't "politically correct" gets slammed, both individually and their team. It is a smart thing to do posting anonymously, their team doesn't get harmed and neither do they. And for those who think it is dishonorable and a sneaky stab in the back, what would you do? Put the reputation of your team on the line or post anonymously? Those who will retort back to my post with the "if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say it" remark: if this thread really burned your shorts would you sit back and let it go on?

To everyone on both sides of the issue, I would like to remind you this is a public forum on the internet. Just because you personally don't like what someone has to say doesn't mean you should start a flame war, or run their personal and/or team's reputation through the mud. With that being said, can a moderator please close this thread before it turns really nasty?
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Unread 03-22-2010, 09:46 PM
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1718 View Post
because they know how mob mentality is. I'm not taking either side of this debate, it is napalm to one and all, but the anonymous account thing I will comment on. Anyone who says anything in the FIRST community that isn't "politically correct" gets slammed, both individually and their team.
While I can see what you're saying, kinda, to an extent, in other contexts only... I think there's a difference between "political incorrectness" and saying a team full of hard working students and mentors that's a model for teams around the world to emulate doesn't deserve their trophies or their success because they have some parts machined in another state. Generally, drawing the line at insulting and attacking dozens of individuals publicly and anonymously is not a bad place for said line...
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Unread 03-22-2010, 09:51 PM
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1718 View Post
because they know how mob mentality is. I'm not taking either side of this debate, it is napalm to one and all, but the anonymous account thing I will comment on. Anyone who says anything in the FIRST community that isn't "politically correct" gets slammed, both individually and their team. It is a smart thing to do posting anonymously, their team doesn't get harmed and neither do they. And for those who think it is dishonorable and a sneaky stab in the back, what would you do? Put the reputation of your team on the line or post anonymously? Those who will retort back to my post with the "if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say it" remark: if this thread really burned your shorts would you sit back and let it go on?
It is absolutely dishonourable. If you can't stand behind what you have to say, why bother saying it? I'm well aware that anything I say on these forums is a reflection both upon myself and my team. If I'm not willing to put that reputation on the line, then I'll keep my mouth shut. (Keep in mind I've had my share of controversial moments on these forums and said some pretty blunt things, ask someone on Team 48 if you don't believe me.) It's much easier to criticize someone when shielded by a shroud of anonymity. It's the equivalent of putting a mask on and running up to a kid in school and saying "you're ugly". It's juvenile and ridiculous.

/Edit

Also, posting anonymously is completely unproductive. No one takes these anonymous posts seriously. If the original poster actually had concerns with how 217 was being run, there are about 1000 other constructive ways to address the issue. Perhaps going up to Mike Copioli and saying "Hey Mike, I think your team has some problems, I was hoping we could discuss them". By hurling anonymous insults on an internet forum, the post has accomplished absolutely nothing. (Aside from wasting may time...)
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"Enthusiasm is one of the most powerful engines of success. When you do a thing, do it with all your might. Put your whole soul into it. Stamp it with your own personality. Be active, be energetic, be enthusiastic and faithful and you will accomplish your object. Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm" -- R.W. Emerson
My TEDx Talk - The Subtle Secrets of Success
Full disclosure: I work for IFI and VEX Robotics, and am the Chairman of the VEX Robotics and VEX IQ Game Design Committees
.

Last edited by Karthik : 03-22-2010 at 09:55 PM.
  #40   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-22-2010, 09:52 PM
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

Quote:
Originally Posted by babycakes View Post
This team is way overated. It easy to make a good robot when ALL your parts are machined in Texas and shipped back and pop riveted together. The students learn alot about problem solving there. And they expect all the awards they get and arent even excited about winning a district. The driver on the team when asked if he was excited at the cass tech district said " not really, i know we are going to win it". This team really deserves everything they get huh?
Feel free to email me and I'll be happy to explain how our process works. There is nothing "easy" about it.

Man... all these people who need a hug, and so little time.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 09:53 PM
Lil' Lavery Lil' Lavery is offline
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1718 View Post
because they know how mob mentality is. I'm not taking either side of this debate, it is napalm to one and all, but the anonymous account thing I will comment on. Anyone who says anything in the FIRST community that isn't "politically correct" gets slammed, both individually and their team. It is a smart thing to do posting anonymously, their team doesn't get harmed and neither do they. And for those who think it is dishonorable and a sneaky stab in the back, what would you do? Put the reputation of your team on the line or post anonymously? Those who will retort back to my post with the "if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say it" remark: if this thread really burned your shorts would you sit back and let it go on?

To everyone on both sides of the issue, I would like to remind you this is a public forum on the internet. Just because you personally don't like what someone has to say doesn't mean you should start a flame war, or run their personal and/or team's reputation through the mud. With that being said, can a moderator please close this thread before it turns really nasty?
Except it's against the rules that you agree to when you post on this forum.
  #42   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-22-2010, 09:57 PM
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karthik View Post
It is absolutely dishonourable. If you can't stand behind what you have to say, why bother saying it? I'm well aware that anything I say on these forums is a reflection both upon myself and my team. If I'm not willing to put that reputation on the line, then I'll keep my mouth shut. (Keep in mind I've had my share of controversial moments on these forums and said some pretty blunt things, ask someone on Team 48 if you don't believe me.) It's much easier to criticize someone when shielded by a shroud of anonymity. It's the equivalent of putting a mask on and running up to a kid in school and saying "you're ugly". It's juvenile and ridiculous.

/Edit

Also, posting anonymously is completely unproductive. No one takes these anonymous posts seriously. If the original poster actually had concerns with how 217 was being run, there are about 1000 other constructive ways to address the issue. Perhaps going up to Mike Copioli and saying "Hey Mike, I think your team has some problems, I was hoping we could discuss them". By hurling anonymous insults on an internet forum, the post has accomplished absolutely nothing. (Aside from wasting may time...)
/Edit #2 (Since I've already wasted my time)

The Thunderchickens are one of the best run teams in all of FIRST. They arguably have one of the most intelligent student groups of any team in FIRST. (The "ringers" as we've dubbed them) Each year they astonish me with what they accomplish and have probably done more to inspire my methods of mentoring on 1114 than any other team in FIRST. So yeah.
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My TEDx Talk - The Subtle Secrets of Success
Full disclosure: I work for IFI and VEX Robotics, and am the Chairman of the VEX Robotics and VEX IQ Game Design Committees
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Unread 03-22-2010, 10:01 PM
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

One's validity is dictated by how much they wager with their opinion, and the strength of that opinion. This person is wagering nothing by saying this, and making a weak point, making it quite easy to highlight.

As JVN stated in his brainstorming video, "If you don't have evidence, your opinion is useless to me." Or, something to that effect. This is true here, where the only evidence is a seemingly jealous statement and a protective mask.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 10:24 PM
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy1718 View Post
To everyone on both sides of the issue, I would like to remind you this is a public forum on the internet. Just because you personally don't like what someone has to say doesn't mean you should start a flame war, or run their personal and/or team's reputation through the mud. With that being said, can a moderator please close this thread before it turns really nasty?
You pretty much read my mind.

I understand the fact that one may disagree with someone else about a certain statement/post, but this is not really the location for attacking others. chiefdelphi.com was not created for heated arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by babycakes View Post
This team really deserves everything they get huh?
Every last bit. They received their awards for a reason/multiple reasons.
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Last edited by delsaner : 03-22-2010 at 10:33 PM.
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Unread 03-22-2010, 11:07 PM
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Re: Team 217 - Thunderchickens

The comment against Thunderchickens makes me sick to the stomach. Their team is still one of the reasons why I am still involved with FIRST no matter how much my parents or my gf are against it just because it takes so much out of me.

Thank you Team 217 for all your inspiration.
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