OCCRA
Go to Post There can be only one.... - Koko Ed [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Motors
CD-Events   CD-Media   CD-Spy   FRC-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-05-2010, 03:24 PM
The Lucas's Avatar
The Lucas The Lucas is offline
Don't Get EliMOEnated!
AKA: My First Name is really "The" (or Brian)
FRC #0365 (The Miracle Workerz); FRC#1495 (AGR); FRC#4342 (Demon)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Dela-Where?
Posts: 1,525
The Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond reputeThe Lucas has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to The Lucas
Re: Were we ever limited on the amounts of non-CIM motor

If you are looking into designing a swerve drive with no prior experience, I recommend you check out the video of Team 118's crab drive presentation from the '09 Robotics Conference. It should show you the basics.
__________________

Electrical & Programming Mentor ---Team #365 "The Miracle Workerz"
Founding Mentor --- Team #1495 Avon Grove High School
2007 CMP Chairman's Award - Thanks to all MOE members (and others) past and present who made it a reality.
Robot Inspector
"I don't think I'm ever more ''aware'' than I am right after I burn my thumb with a soldering iron"
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-05-2010, 04:18 PM
NyCityKId's Avatar
NyCityKId NyCityKId is offline
That Weird Kid
AKA: Andre Dunkley
FRC #1601 (Quantum Samurai)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Queens, New York
Posts: 137
NyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to NyCityKId
Re: Were we ever limited on the amounts of non-CIM motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lucas View Post
If you are looking into designing a swerve drive with no prior experience, I recommend you check out the video of Team 118's crab drive presentation from the '09 Robotics Conference. It should show you the basics.
Thanks for the link Lucas. I'm watching the video right now. I'm only 8 minutes into it and they're pointing out some problems that I over looked.

-Andre
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-12-2010, 03:41 PM
PAR_WIG1350's Avatar
PAR_WIG1350 PAR_WIG1350 is offline
>e, 7h3 5up3rn47ur4l
AKA: Alan Wells
FRC #1350 (Rambots)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,091
PAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond reputePAR_WIG1350 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Were we ever limited on the amounts of non-CIM motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz View Post
Andre,
Make sure that you can live with the efficiency of the bevel gears.

Par,
Take a look at my post again, please.
I understand that you were specifically referring to motors mounted on the module it self, I was just clarifying that point for others who might have less experience with swerve drive and wanted a way around the rotary electric contact ban while still maintaining the unique capabilities of continuous rotation swerve drive.
__________________
rambots.net
Promo video (played in our pit in St. Louis)
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-12-2010, 04:22 PM
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,072
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Were we ever limited on the amounts of non-CIM motor

I was also referring to sensors mounted on the wheels, a convenient method of tracking robot movement for auto mode. Slip rings were legal in the past and may be legal in the future. Although cool in some respects, continuous rotation is generally never needed nor does it supercede the need to use inefficient bevel gears. Although they look good on paper, mechanical guys can discuss the unique problems with alignment and power transfer better than I can.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
All is better now, NOS parts are working fine. Why does this year's game remind me of Violet in Willie Wonka? Hmmmm, I see blueberries!
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-12-2010, 09:22 PM
NyCityKId's Avatar
NyCityKId NyCityKId is offline
That Weird Kid
AKA: Andre Dunkley
FRC #1601 (Quantum Samurai)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Queens, New York
Posts: 137
NyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to beholdNyCityKId is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to NyCityKId
Re: Were we ever limited on the amounts of non-CIM motor

How inefficient are bevel gears? I've looked it up and I keep getting a pretty big range (around 1-45% efficiency loss typically). What makes them inefficient? is it the quality of workmanship (i.e. how well they fit together) or is it just a flaw of the design and cannot be circumvented? I'm no mechanical engineer but it seems to me that if a pair of bevel gears a custom machined so that the fit together near perfectly then there should be very little losses. If anyone can explain this it would be greatly appreciated.

-Andre
  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-13-2010, 08:27 AM
Unsung FIRST Hero
Mike Betts Mike Betts is offline
Electrical Engineer
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: Homosassa, FL
Posts: 1,443
Mike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond reputeMike Betts has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Were we ever limited on the amounts of non-CIM motor

Andre,

When you stop to investigate, many gear efficiencies (or inefficiencies) may surprise you. For example:

The Globe motor (KOP a few years ago) had a 77% gearbox efficiency (23% loss). Granted, it was multiple stage (117:1) but it was probably better designed, integrated and implemented than anything you will accomplish in your school's machine shop.

Another example: A Globe gearbox/motor I used in another robotic competition last year (65:1 gear ratio) sported a gearbox efficiency of 66% (34% loss).

Also note that these examples were manufacturer's numbers and likely optimistic...

When we learn physics, we almost always "ignore friction". The real world never does...

Regards,

Mike
__________________
Mike Betts

Alumnus, Team 3518, Panthrobots, 2011
Alumnus, Team 177, Bobcat Robotics, 1995 - 2010
LRI, Connecticut Regional, 2007-2010
LRI, WPI Regional, 2009 - 2010
RI, South Florida Regional, 2012 - 2013

As easy as 355/113...
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 04-13-2010, 11:14 AM
SteveJanesch SteveJanesch is offline
hopes he has enough oomph
FRC #1533 (Triple Strange)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 103
SteveJanesch is a splendid one to beholdSteveJanesch is a splendid one to beholdSteveJanesch is a splendid one to beholdSteveJanesch is a splendid one to beholdSteveJanesch is a splendid one to beholdSteveJanesch is a splendid one to beholdSteveJanesch is a splendid one to behold
Re: Were we ever limited on the amounts of non-CIM motor

NYCK,

It sounds to me like you're attempting a really cool and ambitious development, which is great. It's the off-season, so don't let yourself be restricted by what's allowed in a particular year's KOP - this would make an excellent demo-bot. For turning, you could use 2 LH and 2 RH window motors, or four old Globe motors, FP's with transmissions, or whatever you've got in inventory. Learn as much as you can and have fun with it. Do keep in the back of your mind what restrictions you'll face with next year's KOP, but for now don't worry about it.

Also, if you plan to actually build a demo chassis, start working with a programmer or two on what sort of driver inputs (in addition to drive module sensors) that can be used/will be needed to control eight independent motors. Let us know how it works out.

- Steve
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All the FRC Teams That Ever Were Mark McLeod General Forum 98 07-28-2010 09:50 AM
How close can you mount the IFI Controller to a CIM motor Capt. Quirk Control System 8 02-20-2008 07:37 PM
your thoughts on the FP CIM/2.5 CIM motor drive setup versus 2 2.5 CIM motors waialua359 Motors 11 12-14-2007 04:29 AM
opening up the BaneBot gearbox to install the CIM motor jskene Motors 9 01-22-2007 11:12 AM
dewalt motor VS. CIM motor John Gutmann Motors 12 01-10-2007 06:57 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:12 PM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi