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#1
06-21-2012, 12:42 AM
 Andrew Lawrence Learning something new every day AKA: Andrew Lawrence FRC #0256 (Robo Rams) Team Role: Tactician Join Date: Jan 2011 Rookie Year: 2011 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 2,779
AM Shifter: 2:56:1 spread vs. 4:1 spread

I've been looking into the AM shifter transmissions, but have no idea how to calculate the 2:56:1 or 4:1 into my calculations (using JVN design calc). Can someone explain the two to me, and if possible the gearing that goes on in there? This is probably really simple, but I've spent 3 days trying to figure this out.

Thanks!
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#2
06-21-2012, 12:50 AM
 rutzman Registered User AKA: Ryan FRC #2614 (MARS) Join Date: Sep 2008 Rookie Year: 2008 Location: Morgantown, WV Posts: 113
Re: AM Shifter: 2:56:1 spread vs. 4:1 spread

Quote:
 Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 I've been looking into the AM shifter transmissions, but have no idea how to calculate the 2:56:1 or 4:1 into my calculations (using JVN design calc). Can someone explain the two to me, and if possible the gearing that goes on in there? This is probably really simple, but I've spent 3 days trying to figure this out. Thanks!
The 2.56:1 has final reductions of 10.67:1 and 4.17:1.
The 4:1 has final reductions of 10.67:1 and 2.67:1.
If I remember correctly, the difference comes from flipping a 28:35 to a 35:28, or vice versa.
#3
06-21-2012, 12:50 AM
 R.C. Ramping Up for the 2013 Season! AKA: Owner, WestCoast Products & Design LLC FRC #1323 (MadTown Robotics) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Feb 2008 Rookie Year: 2006 Location: Madera, CA Posts: 1,762
Re: AM Shifter: 2:56:1 spread vs. 4:1 spread

Andrew,

The spread is determined by changing the gears inside the transmission. On JVN's calc on the 2 speed section, replace the numbers with the different gear sets available from AM.

If your still a little lost, feel free to hit me up via PM/IM.

-RC
#4
06-21-2012, 12:51 AM
 iyermihir Registered User FRC #0649 (Saratoga MSET) Team Role: CAD Join Date: Dec 2011 Rookie Year: 2011 Location: Saratoga, California Posts: 30
Re: AM Shifter: 2:56:1 spread vs. 4:1 spread

Those are the ratios between the high and low gears. The ratios that you would want to put in the calculator are under gearing on the product page.
For the 4:1 spread:
Low Gear: 10.67:1
High Gear: 2.67:1

For the 2.56:1 spread:
Low Gear: 10.67:1
High Gear: 4.17:1
#5
06-21-2012, 01:04 AM
 Andrew Lawrence Learning something new every day AKA: Andrew Lawrence FRC #0256 (Robo Rams) Team Role: Tactician Join Date: Jan 2011 Rookie Year: 2011 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 2,779
Re: AM Shifter: 2:56:1 spread vs. 4:1 spread

I sorta understand the spread, but the gears are my main problem. I'm looking at this picture (http://www.andymark.com/PhotoDetails...tCode=am-0001), and don't see what gears are used. I see the two gears in the picture, but I don't think those are the only ones.
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#6
06-21-2012, 04:02 AM
 Tom Ore Registered User FRC #0525 (Swartdogs) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Mar 2010 Rookie Year: 2009 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa Posts: 265
Re: AM Shifter: 2:56:1 spread vs. 4:1 spread

Code:
```AM Shifter AM-0957

Drive PN    Driven PN   Drive NT    Driven NT   SET RATIO   O'ALL RATIO
AM-0018    AM-0024       12              40            3.33
AM-0451    AM-0022       15              48            3.20        10.67
AM-0139    AM-0140       35              28            0.80         2.67

AM Shifter AM-0001

Drive PN    Driven PN   Drive NT    Driven NT   SET RATIO   O'ALL RATIO
AM-0018    AM-0024       12              40           3.33
AM-0451    AM-0022       15              48           3.20          10.67
AM-0025    AM-0023       28              35           1.25	     4.17```
Also, here is a render of AM-0001 with the gear teeth shown.

Last edited by Tom Ore : 06-21-2012 at 04:05 AM.
#7
06-21-2012, 07:13 AM
 A_Reed College Mentor/FIRST Volunteer AKA: Adam Reed FRC #0048 (Delphi E.L.I.T.E) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Nov 2005 Rookie Year: 2003 Location: Warren,OH USA Posts: 474
Re: AM Shifter: 2:56:1 spread vs. 4:1 spread

(40/12)*(48/15)=10.667
(40/12)*(35/28)=4.167

12T input gear (x2 - CIM)
15T small cluster gear (output side)
28T medium cluster gear (motor side)
35T small output gear (motor side)
40T large cluster gear (center of cluster - direct input from 12T)
48T large output gear (output side)

(40/12)*(48/15)=10.667
(40/12)*(28/35)=2.667

12T input gear (x2 - CIM)
15T small cluster gear (output side)
28T small output gear (motor side)
35T medium cluster gear (motor side)
40T large cluster gear (center of cluster - direct input from 12T)
48T large output gear (output side)

Last edited by A_Reed : 06-21-2012 at 07:16 AM.
#8
06-21-2012, 08:21 AM
 AlexH lol robots no team Team Role: Mechanical Join Date: Sep 2010 Rookie Year: 2010 Location: PA Posts: 188
Re: AM Shifter: 2:56:1 spread vs. 4:1 spread

Quote:
 Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 I sorta understand the spread, but the gears are my main problem. I'm looking at this picture (http://www.andymark.com/PhotoDetails...tCode=am-0001), and don't see what gears are used. I see the two gears in the picture, but I don't think those are the only ones.
the only thing that matters is the final reduction of each of the two speeds.
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#9
06-21-2012, 09:03 AM
 Alan Anderson Software Architect FRC #0045 (TechnoKats) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Feb 2004 Rookie Year: 2004 Location: Kokomo, Indiana Posts: 7,051
Re: AM Shifter: 2:56:1 spread vs. 4:1 spread

Quote:
 Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 I see the two gears in the picture, but I don't think those are the only ones.
Those two gears are the output gears. They're free-spinning. The shifter dog couples one or the other to the hex-shaped output shaft. There are two other relevant gears on the "power shaft" that engage the output gears; they are hidden directly below what you can see.

There are two or three other gears that transfer the output of the motor(s) to what I've called the power shaft. They provide a first-stage reduction from the motor speed, but they aren't involved in the shifting.
#10
06-21-2012, 10:00 AM
 kramarczyk is getting his kicks. AKA: Mark Kramarczyk FRC #3096 (Highlanders) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Mar 2006 Rookie Year: 2006 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Posts: 596
Re: AM Shifter: 2:56:1 spread vs. 4:1 spread

I would also caution you to look at your output power vs. speed with the two ratios. The 4:1 has a pretty big power trough between the peak powers. If your system spends a lot of time in this zone it can eat a battery alive.
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#11
06-21-2012, 10:01 AM
 HumblePie Registered User AKA: Mista Doug FRC #3489 (Category 5) Team Role: Mentor Join Date: Nov 2010 Rookie Year: 2010 Location: SC Lowcountry Posts: 89
Re: AM Shifter: 2:56:1 spread vs. 4:1 spread

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Tom Ore Code: ```AM Shifter AM-0957 Drive PN Driven PN Drive NT Driven NT SET RATIO O'ALL RATIO AM-0018 AM-0024 12 40 3.33 AM-0451 AM-0022 15 48 3.20 10.67 AM-0139 AM-0140 35 28 0.80 2.67 AM Shifter AM-0001 Drive PN Driven PN Drive NT Driven NT SET RATIO O'ALL RATIO AM-0018 AM-0024 12 40 3.33 AM-0451 AM-0022 15 48 3.20 10.67 AM-0025 AM-0023 28 35 1.25 4.17``` Also, here is a render of AM-0001 with the gear teeth shown.

I must say, that is a beautiful rendering.
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#12
06-21-2012, 10:50 AM
 Andrew Lawrence Learning something new every day AKA: Andrew Lawrence FRC #0256 (Robo Rams) Team Role: Tactician Join Date: Jan 2011 Rookie Year: 2011 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 2,779
Re: AM Shifter: 2:56:1 spread vs. 4:1 spread

Thanks everyone! I understand it now!
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