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Unread 01-18-2012, 12:06 PM
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[FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

It seems since this past weekend (after the new high scores) a lot of teams have said they are completely redesigning there robots, but I was wondering if teams redesign there robots and still keep the ball collection or any part of the robot, will they have have enough time to build it in such a way for the lift to work with the rest of the robot? I think teams will have enough time between now and Worlds (like the teams that have Invitations) but I don't know about having it ready by some State competitions, because there has been a lot of qualifiers and state competitions already, and most of them are with in the next month or so. Thanks and please tell me your thoughts.
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Unread 01-18-2012, 12:21 PM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

As a team that will NOT be redesigning their robot, we would like to warn teams about the amount of work that goes into creating a lift system. For us at least it took a LONG time to get the lift right. If you are redesigning power to you but I would NOT redesign if I had to make the decision right now.
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Unread 01-18-2012, 12:37 PM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

I completely agree with you, our lift took a very long time to make, we spent a lot of time on off practices to get it right because one practice a week is nothing close to enough. Not only do you need to build a lift, you need to flip a crate, put a ball in it, lift it, have something that holds it, then lift. Its a long process to get everything working together but I think it can be done if you spend enough time on it. I think most high lifting teams will want a partner that can flip crates, put balls in them and then bring them to the team with the lift, but that's just what I think will happen.
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Unread 01-18-2012, 08:44 PM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

I think now is a good time to bring up some other things about the lifts.

Do you think FIRST meant for this game to be based around lifting? It makes all other scoring methods mostly useless.

Second, what are your strategies for defending against lifting? How easy do you think it is to move crates around on the ground and make it difficult for teams to get? It seems to me simply nudging a crate can make a team take an extra 15 seconds. There are a few other great ways to prevent teams from holding a crate up at the end of the game that I haven't heard talk of, too.

But yeah, what are people's thoughts regarding this stuff?

Last edited by h3x : 01-18-2012 at 10:36 PM.
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Unread 01-18-2012, 11:09 PM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

I've come up with a linear lift system that would be really easy to build and implement, however working out the kinks in a lift system is really what takes most of the time. I think the teams with scissor lifts did a great job and have proven scissors to be great mechanisms for this game (even though I don't like them really)

However for sake of argument I'm going to throw this in there. I am a strong believer that if a team were to implement it correctly a Linear system would A be faster to lift B be higher and C much much more efficient (all relies on design of course)

What does everyone think?

- Andrew
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Unread 01-19-2012, 12:35 AM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyride_67_1902 View Post
I've come up with a linear lift system that would be really easy to build and implement, however working out the kinks in a lift system is really what takes most of the time. I think the teams with scissor lifts did a great job and have proven scissors to be great mechanisms for this game (even though I don't like them really)

However for sake of argument I'm going to throw this in there. I am a strong believer that if a team were to implement it correctly a Linear system would A be faster to lift B be higher and C much much more efficient (all relies on design of course)

What does everyone think?

- Andrew
What do you mean by a linear lift system? Can you be a little more specific?
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Unread 01-19-2012, 06:23 AM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

We are using a linear lift system!

In other words H3X, rather than using two sissors to lift up crates, it uses 1 telescoping rod.
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Unread 01-19-2012, 08:38 AM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by h3x View Post
What do you mean by a linear lift system? Can you be a little more specific?
Not a scissor lift.

http://team254.com/wp-content/upload...254-2011-1.jpg

Best example.

- Andrew
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Unread 01-19-2012, 08:44 AM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

With most scissor lifts, they take up 2 out of the 8 DC motors, along with a good chunk of the robot (no matter how big or how many links you have). We took the time to build everything around the scissor lift, but if you don't have a ton of time to work on your FTC robot, you might want to consider another form of lifting a crate like the posts above, we never used a telescoping lift, but it could be a fast way to get a lift system that works and ready for competition. Like I said before, it will take a lot of time and effort to build a robot to lift crates very high.
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Unread 01-19-2012, 10:00 AM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

Nothing more than truth in that post!

Just to poke the fire a bit more I figured out a way to get 19 feet with a linear lift, can anyone figure out how?

- Andrew
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Unread 01-19-2012, 10:20 AM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

Our experience has been most of the 2nd year and older teams have implemented a lift system. There are a few rookie teams building them but most have their hands full learning all they need to know about FTC.

The lifts come in various flavors: Nested slides, roller and track, 4-bar linkage, single arm lifts, and scissor. The scissor lifts are the most common.

We've observed that most lifting robots are one trick ponies. Half of the are in barely working order and the rest are very slow, requiring a great deal of time to set and lift.
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Unread 01-19-2012, 12:28 PM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

For the most part that is true, this year our gear ratio is 1:1 because last year we did 2:1 and it was to slow and plus we pushed the middle of the field all the way to the other side in auto mode twice at Worlds. So at lest we aren't slow this year.
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Unread 01-19-2012, 05:00 PM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

@Aperture: Actually, yes. Just not sure how to store the helium.
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Unread 01-19-2012, 10:12 PM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotrobot? View Post
@Aperture: Actually, yes. Just not sure how to store the helium.
hehehe Helium storage wouldn't pass inspection silly...

Actually pnuematics would be pretty cool...

- Andrew
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Unread 01-19-2012, 10:40 PM
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Re: [FTC]: Lift systems/Time?

I think you can use lego pneumatic's
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