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Unread 11-26-2001, 10:09 AM
TF8 TF8 is offline
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Drill Motors

Team 151 Needs a little help,
We are looking for current drill motors. Last year we used the van doors for drive and were not impressed. After a drive fiasco(sp) in 2000 when we burnt up every drill we had we are left with zero current drill motors. We are looking for a place to purchase the new drills and transmissions or a team in the north east with an excess of them. thanks for any help.

tyler forbes
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Unread 11-26-2001, 01:27 PM
Adrian Wong Adrian Wong is offline
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Our team also burned out our drill motors last year. We purchased two extra ones from the company listed in the back of the manual. From what I heard, there were no problems getting extra motors. They arrived in small boxes in a few weeks. Our faculty advisor mentioned that they were "cheap", though I suppose that is a relative term.

The listing I have for the company is:

S-B Power Tool Company
121 Corporate Blvd
South Plainfield, NJ 07080
Phone: 908-769-8208

Last edited by Adrian Wong : 11-26-2001 at 01:30 PM.
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Unread 11-26-2001, 06:03 PM
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I could send you a few transmissions but I need the motors, e-mail me if you need the tranny's at matthew.reiland@gm.com
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Unread 11-28-2001, 07:03 PM
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are they the same?

it seems that all we need is the motors as the transmissions as the same. (checked model numbers). i did happen to find one working 1999-2000 drill motor. were the 1999-2000 and 2000-2001 drills the same? if so i should be all set. thanks for any help.

tyler forbes
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Unread 11-29-2001, 05:15 PM
Kai Zhao Kai Zhao is offline
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My team also burnt out a few drill motors recently. We called FIRST to ask them where to get the motors and they said they had surplus from last year. We got 3 motors from them without even paying shipping! I don't know if they have any left. If they don't , email me and I'll try to get send you one of ours.
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Unread 11-30-2001, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kai Zhao
We called FIRST to ask them where to get the motors and they said they had surplus from last year. We got 3 motors from them without even paying shipping
..... if FIRST has a surplus of drill motors to give away, does that mean that they are not going to use them this year?? Just a bit of speculation - I don't see why they couldn't give away one year old never-been-used drill motors if they were in the parts kit this year.

~Tom Fairchild~, who thinks that not having drill motors would definitly make some teams do more work - including his!
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Unread 12-10-2001, 04:17 PM
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I heard that those drill motors have been discontined, so they may not appear in the kit this year. I assume that there will be a reasonable substitute if they are absent.
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Unread 12-11-2001, 05:15 AM
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3310 and 3315...

I've noticed that FIRST have been using the Bosch 3310 drills before, and that last year we actually got the 3315. Now, that could mean that the 3310 was the model Bosch stop producing, and that we will be using 3315 from now on.

Those two model have pretty much identical specs, although the cases are different...

So I won't be so sure that FIRST will stop using Bosch drills, but then, most of the hand drills have pretty much the same designs.

Maybe they will use a motor where putting a fisher price motor on the back won't be possible anymore. Now that will make a difference.

I still wish not every robot next year will be using that dual motor design.
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Unread 12-11-2001, 11:11 AM
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Raising the bar

Quote:
Originally posted by Ken Leung
I still wish not every robot next year will be using that dual motor design.
I doubt that every robot will use this design.

Our team gets many inquiries about this design, but many teams will still do their own thing, because of a variety of reasons:
...1. They don't believe that this design works, and they don't have the time to prove to themselves that it does.
...2. They want to do their own thing. So, they take this design and modify it for their own liking.
...3. They don't have the fabrication equipment to make the parts accurrate enough.
...4. They are not sure that these motors will be provided in next year's kit.
...5. They already have their proven motor designs for their drive base (if it ain't broke, don't fix it).

All of these reasons are valid to a certain level... some more than others. The biggest argument I have is with #3. Teams automatically think that they have to meet the tolerances signified in these prints, but in actuality they don't. In order to get one of these things built, you get the parts made as accurrately as you can, then you tweak the parts (file, shim, whatever) to get the assembly to run w/o too much wobble.

Even so... I predict that only 5% of teams will use this design on their robot.

Still... even IF all teams used this design... it would be a good thing, in my opinion. The main reason why we published this design is simple:

This will increase the level of competitiveness of FIRST robots.


Andy B.
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Unread 12-11-2001, 01:36 PM
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Out with the old -- in with the new

Since I first started doing FIRST the motors have gone from:

1996:
2 Milwaukee drills
4 Delco seat motors

1997:
2 Skil Drills
4 ITTA seat motors (ITTA bought Delco Products)
2 ITTA window motors

1998:
2 Bosch Drills
2 Globe motors 2 Bosch power sliding door motors
2 Keyang seat motors
(Keyang makes a less expensive bolt in replacement of ITTA seat motor)
2 ITTA window motors

1999:
2 Bosch Drills
2 Fisher Price motors/gearboxes
1 Taigene power sliding door motors
(Taigene makes a less expensive bolt in replacement of the Bosch power sliding door motor)
1 Bosch power sliding door motors
2 Globe motors
2 Keyang seat motors
2 Valeo window motors
(Valeo bought ITTA)


2000:
2 Bosch Drills
2 Fisher Price motors/gearboxes
2 Taigene power sliding door motors
2 Globe motors
2 Keyang seat motors
2 Valeo window motors


2001:
2 Bosch Drills
2 Fisher Price motors/gearboxes
2 Bosch power sliding door motors
(Bosch was convinced to donate the motors)
2 Globe motors
2 Keyang seat motors
2 Valeo window motors
1 "Torque Motor" (hardly worth the bother)

2002:
Much that is the same
Much that is new

As you can see there have been a lot of changes to the motors in the kit in the last 6 years. There will surely be changes in the future.

Can't wait for the kit and game to be unveiled.

Joe J.

P.S. I may have had one or two details messed up above. Memories get all confused as time marches on and there is so much to keep straight in my head. With the exception of the Torque Motor, I have personally played a role in every motor in the kit by either begging my management to buy the motors for FIRST or by begging and pleading with the motor suppliers to eventually convince them to (fully or partially) donate the motors to FIRST. By the way, much of FIRST works this way. There are many many folks working behind the scenes making sure that FIRST is successful. Think of these folks when you stand and clap at the end of a FIRST competition.
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Unread 12-11-2001, 09:08 PM
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Re: Raising the bar

Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Baker
Our team gets many inquiries about this design...

All of these reasons are valid to a certain level... some more than others. The biggest argument I have is with #3. Teams automatically think that they have to meet the tolerances signified in these prints, but in actuality they don't. In order to get one of these things built, you get the parts made as accurrately as you can, then you tweak the parts (file, shim, whatever) to get the assembly to run w/o too much wobble.

Even so... I predict that only 5% of teams will use this design on their robot.

Still... even IF all teams used this design... it would be a good thing, in my opinion. The main reason why we published this design is simple:

This will increase the level of competitiveness of FIRST robots.
Sorry, i'm a newbie to these boards. What design is this?
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Unread 12-11-2001, 09:14 PM
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Re: Re: Raising the bar

Quote:
Originally posted by ahecht


Sorry, i'm a newbie to these boards. What design is this?
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pa...per&paperid=21

It's a motor assembly that the TechnoKats designed, and it couples the Fisher Price and Bosch Drill motors together so that they work in tandem.
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Unread 12-11-2001, 09:18 PM
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See the white papers section of this web site

Joe J.

WHITE PAPERS
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Unread 12-11-2001, 09:46 PM
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Thanks for the links. One thing I don't understand about the design though: Is the FP motor actually rotating the drill motor?
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Unread 12-11-2001, 10:02 PM
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What happen in the design is that the Fisher Price's output shaft is attached onto the back of Drill motor's output shaft. So, together, the two motors push on the combined shaft, transfering both motor's mechanical power into the drill transmission, and eventually onto the wheels.

That is why there're two nut shape attachment on each of the output shaft, and a coupler joining them.

So, this is really a 4 motors drive train with a conventional tank design. The only draw back is that there is no room for gear reduction on the fisher-price motor to change it into the same speed as the drill motor...
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