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View Poll Results: What should have been the call at the Cleveland Regional semis??
Replay the second match (what happened) 27 40.91%
No Replay, alliance #6 wins 30 45.45%
Replay both matches 7 10.61%
flip a coin 2 3.03%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 03-09-2003, 04:41 PM
SharkBite SharkBite is offline
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of course they wouldnt have asked for a rematch if they had won.... because the only reason they have to complain is that it affected a possible win and if it didnt theres no reason to complain

as for who was at fault, that is hard to decide from the perspective of a bystander... only that ref and that human player/drive team know what happened

even if it was the human player who stood on the mat, if they were told to do so by the ref and it is not in the rules that they must, then that still makes things unfair..... the human player may have listened out of fear of disqualification when it was not something they wanted to do
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Unread 03-09-2003, 05:07 PM
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At least at BAE, we were told to wait until the end of a match to bring up complaints with the refs. The refs are very busy during the matches, and can't be constantly bombarded with complaints. The team did the correct thing by waiting until the match was over before lodging a complaint.

Quote:
Originally posted by eko7385
If you go watch the tape it looks like it was 85's error
If you watch the webcast (just before 23 minutes), what it looks like is that the FIRST volunteer walks back to the scoring table after closing the gate, accidently stepping on the mat on his way. After the bell sounds, the 85 human player steps back on to his mat (although I don't know why). Regardless of whether the human player meant to step on the mat or not, it looks like 85's mat was activated by the volunteer, not their human player.
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Last edited by ahecht : 03-09-2003 at 05:26 PM.
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Unread 03-09-2003, 05:22 PM
Tyler Olds Tyler Olds is offline
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Stop complaining.

Hey guys no offense but back off on the refs. They are volunteering and trying to do the best that they can. It's not like there out to screw your team or anything. Trust me I know what it is like. At IRI last year I was in the players station at the finals when we were on 111 and 71's alliance when we got dq'd. Now that I look back on it, I realize that Sean and Baker were right in calling it, they did the best that they could. My point is that maybe you need to put yourselves in their shoes and relieze how hard it is to actualy referee, trust me it is not that simple as I ref soccer.
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Unread 03-09-2003, 05:54 PM
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Re: Stop complaining.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Olds
Hey guys no offense but back off on the refs. They are volunteering and trying to do the best that they can. It's not like there out to screw your team or anything. ...
Actually I have been watching these posts very closely and I don't believe that anyone from any of our teams has complained about the refs. This poll was started by a third party who is interested in the opinion of the FIRST community. Many of us are.

There is no intended criticism.

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Unread 03-09-2003, 08:05 PM
Tyler Olds Tyler Olds is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Koko Ed
I thought 226, 902 and 494 got absolutely screwed.
I beg to differ............
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Unread 03-10-2003, 09:06 AM
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from what i remember, the first mention of an appeal did not come up until about three minutes after the score was posted. i was standing right there changing our battery and excited as could be, when i heard the coach for 85 metion it and i was worried. but then i thought 'wait, there's no such thing as an appeal in FIRST' - just a thought.

the refs were great and i don't blame them at all. anybody from my team who did, i discredit (as Matt has already explained).

however, there was no way for the driver, our coach, and i to be in the right state of mind to replay another match so soon. my thoughts were bad and i know our driver was upset. although we might not have won the semi-finals, i do believe we should have been recognized. so i can only hope for better luck in grand rapids... cya there
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Unread 03-10-2003, 09:36 AM
doomsdaytank doomsdaytank is offline
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ok first of all there was no quick thinking they tried to get up the ramp the whole time i am the driver of team 902 and i had a hard time to hold the 2 teams off the ramp by myself
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Unread 03-10-2003, 10:43 AM
Steve Yasick Steve Yasick is offline
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Here is what happened that caused the problem. If you look at the start of the match, there was a large amount of confusion from FIRST as to where the drive teams should be on both sides of the field.
85 and 378-switched positions for the drive team (as they were told to by first) in the confusion the human players were not asked to switch. When play started the 85 player was on the 378 pad and the 378 player was on 85's pad. This meant that when the human players wanted to stop team 85 and run team 378 the opposite happened. The second the match was over the Zeeland coach went to the referees.

Again I wish it was all clear and clean and that it was explained better by an announcement. I am glad we got the chance to play the match again and am proud of how everyone on both sides handled the controversy.
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Unread 03-10-2003, 12:02 PM
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if that is the case being the fault of the human players and not FIRST then it seems it should be no rematch or alliance #6's chose.
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Unread 03-10-2003, 12:19 PM
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What was the complaint to FIRST because we were told a FIRST personal steped on 85's mat?

If it was the team's fault then there is no rematch under rule GM 3
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Unread 03-10-2003, 12:31 PM
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im sorry to the alliance who did not benefit from the refs call.... i still think the refs did the right thing though.... if FIRST switched the driving stations and made a mess out of who was supposed to be where and the human players expected the mats to activate the opposite robots than something was unfair and trust me you dont want to win if the other side doesnt have a fair chance.... besides they still had to win in the first match and prevent you from beating that score in the rematch........

keep in mind whats important..... if you genuinely think your robot was better than everyone who was there and saw it will know that.... theres too much luck involved with the actual competition to judge anything on that basis

sometimes dissapointing stuff happens at FIRST and it sucks.... last year my team lost the divisional finals at the nationals due to a bad battery... it was the battery first supplied us with (basically it looked like a good battery but died the minute we put a load on it).....not out fault but we didnt get a rematch.....this dissapointment was recovered when we got to play the champions at one of the summer competitions
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Unread 03-10-2003, 01:33 PM
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but what I want to know is what 85 and 378 told FIRST at the competition?

Secondly it is not FIRST fault that the drivers had to switch places and the human players should have know better so the match was just as fair as any other match and by no means have enough reson for a rematch
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Unread 03-10-2003, 01:38 PM
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both teams driver stations were messed up we switched our human players without being asked so both sides had the same disadvatage and 902-494-226 win. Next time FIRST should stick to no rematches
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Unread 03-10-2003, 02:40 PM
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hello

Hello, I would just like to say on behalf of the robohawks team 902 that it was a good competition over all. being captain and driver I hope i speak for our whole team when i say we had alot of fun. and we are just happy we made it so far. so thank you to all the teams that competed in the regional and hope to see you at another competition. and i would like to thank the staff and volunteers at the buckeye regional for devoting their time and efforts.
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Unread 03-10-2003, 03:35 PM
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personally I think that we got screwed out of going to the finals and I do NOT think that a replay should have been awarded, its just like in almost any other sporting event or activity if any refferee gets in the way of the game play u just take the hit and keep playing.........i think the refs at the buckeye regional made what they saw was the proper decision. but at the time in awarding the rematch/replay they did not take into account that they needed to ensure that it was replayed fairly and without any variation to programming or robot configuration................what else they didnt consider is that fact that in the second match that is the one in question, that a strategy was used there and that both alliances would change their strategy and therefore making a replay/rematch not valid and totaly different from the original match also the mood that each team would be in, greatly affects the outcome of any match, put ur self in alliance #6's shoes, u r the underdog in the match and u lose the first match, then the second one u come back and win but then they say u must redo the match, and ur like come on whats with this u dont really have a clear answer as to why u must do this and u r probably thinking that u may have did something wrong in the match or any # of other things that could be racing through your mind........... i think that in order to have this resolved FIRST officials need to have a meeting with all six teams involved and review any evidence and determine what is to happen....... I dont expect to have our team crowned regional champs or anything but what i want to mostly see happen is a rule created to prevent this from happening again to any other team b/c what it feels like to be on the losing end of the ref decision is horrible and it can only be worse to be the ref. that had to make the decision.........i will stop boring u now so im out all peace!!!!!!!!!!
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